106. Midlife Marriage: When Your Spouse Becomes Your Roommate

Midlife Reality Check And Welcome

Cheryl Fischer 0:00

In case you missed it, last week, episode 105, I had James Davis on to talk to us about the men in our lives and what they're going through and how we can help them. And I was intending to do a second week on that topic, and we're gonna angle it just a little bit differently than I had planned, and we're gonna talk about relationships and what's going on in this midlife period and what we can do. So let's talk about it. If midlife was only about hot flashes, 3 a.m. wakeups, silly injuries, and worrying about everyone from aging parents to adult kids, we'd all be unhappy and isolated. And that's just not true. Whether you're frustrated at work, stressed about retirement, or just looking for the phone that's already in your hand, you're in the right place. Let's change the story around midlife and start loving this chapter. This is the Mind Your Midlife podcast. Big thank you to this episode's sponsor, Barre3 Arlington. Created for women by women, Bar re 3 is a full-body, low-impact workout that combines bar, Pilates, and strength training to build strength, improve flexibility, and increase energy. It's unique for its focus on mind-body connection, love that, and real-time modifications that help you personalize every movement. So expect movements that support your everyday life, helping you feel balanced and strong from the inside out. It's fitness on your own terms, allowing people of every fitness level to create sustainable change from the inside out. So experience Barre3 Arlington's community in classes at the corner of Wilson and North Quincy Street in Ballston in Arlington, Virginia. Your first class is always free, and listeners can get $10 off a class package using the discount code ARLMindYourMidlife. Go down to the show notes and grab those details.

Why The Focus Shifts To Marriage

Cheryl Fischer 1:58

Now back to the show. So we're taking a little shift from what I had planned this week. And here's what happened. I heard from a lot of you that you have worries about what your husband is going through and how to communicate about that. And I get it. And my husband and I have been talking about this all week. But I don't feel comfortable just talking about that on my own because I am a woman and I don't want to speak for men. So I am going to circle back with another male expert to talk to us about how we can help the men in our lives with some of the stuff they're going through. So do stay tuned. We will circle back to that at some point soon. And I'll let you know when. Keep sending in your questions, your stories, the things you've been through in your relationships.

How Couples Turn Into Roommates

Cheryl Fischer 2:53

Today we're going to, as I said at the very beginning, we're going to sort of shift a tiny bit, but still really the same overall topic, to talk about what happens to our relationships in this phase of life. So many couples drift apart, end up divorced, or simply just end up as best friends or kind of roommates. And so what's going on there? And what can we actually do about that? And way, way back long ago, some of you may know this, some of you may not, before Mind Your Midlife, and so it's been a while now, I had a different podcast. And on that way long ago podcast, I interviewed Dr. Jackie Black, who is an expert in working with couples and relationships. And so I'm going to bring in a couple of clips from her as well to help us kind of organize ourselves and see what are some of the things we can actually do to deal with some of these situations that come up. So last week, James was talking about men pulling back. And make sure you go listen to episode 105 if you haven't already, because it'll give you some good context for what we're going to talk about. And the reason that he was talking about that is because he was saying, as a typical guy in our age group, obviously there can be exceptions to this, but as a typical guy in our generation, our age group, maybe they don't know how to speak about emotional issues. They don't know how to put into words when something feels off or they feel upset or, you know, unhappy about something and they're just they're trying that it's hard to express it, right? We can see how that would be the case. So what can happen is as a couple, we end up with some unfortunate circumstances. And one thing that happens to many couples in midlife is not fighting, not arguing all the time, but just being busy roommates. We're there, we're busy, we're running around, and we're living like friend roommates. So what did Dr. Jackie have to say about that?

Transactional Parenting Years Create Distance

Dr. Jackie Black 5:26

So in the earlier parts of relationships, when we have small children and adolescent children, relationships often become transactional. Right? They're no longer yummy experientially. It really is about who's doing what when. Yes. Right. And that's the beginning of that disconnection. It's very subtle. Again, people, many, many couples aren't fighting, but there's a there's a hollowness, an emptiness, um, or a boredom begins to set in. Although boredom is a kissing cousin to anger. Um and then as our kids are older and then they leave, if we're talking about that new concept called empty nest, yes, the couples that have been disconnecting over time have a much more difficult time when the kids leave than the couples who have remained connected. And there's a concept known as the sandwich generation that we have children and we have aging parents because people are living longer and longer and longer. Yeah. Yeah. And I was very fortunate. My grandmother was very young when I was born, and I was a woman in my 50s when she passed away. So I have my grandmother, I know, I have my grandmother in my life for many, many, many years. So we've got that going on sort of peripherally sometimes as well. And the best friends is really where people are companionated. They enjoy each other's company, they may travel together, they're still each other's champions and supporters in life, but they're not having sex, they're not romantic, they're not intimate. There's that whole piece of heart experience, and this is important emotional vulnerability because they don't tap into their heart, so they don't have opportunities to become emotionally vulnerable and available. So it's again, not that they're shut down, you know, not that they're mad and mean and having now we do there are couples, but that's not what we're talking about. These are couples who still really like each other and enjoy each other and and are committed to be together for all kinds of reasons. But that piece of the relationship uh has gone to sleep.

Empty Nest Boredom And New Hobbies

Cheryl Fischer 7:46

The transactional years, like the years when we're we're dealing with all the details uh in the couple. We have the schedules and the kids and the work and the events and the family and the holidays, and maybe aging parents already. And then we suddenly have quiet years with the empty nest and probably still aging parents going on. Hopefully, obviously, we don't want to lose our parents already. There's a lot of quiet where there used to be a lot of stuff that we were haggling, we were discussing, we were working on. And that can be a strange transition. Maybe it creates sort of an unhappiness situation where you look at each other and you think, I don't know if I like you. I hope that's not the case. Maybe it's as simple as, probably more common as you just are bored. And I have felt this in general. What am I doing with myself today or this evening? There's nothing going on. This Saturday, there's nothing going on. I don't get bored easily. And I'm gonna end up reading or knitting or riding a bike or playing golf. I'm gonna find something to do, but it's a weird feeling in that initial moment where you go, uh, uh, I don't know. I don't know if there's anything I want to do. And if you start having this sort of with or maybe against each other is the right way to say it, then that sort of starts to interfere with the relationship. So you've heard me say this before, I think, but my husband and I have decided we wanted to find some new hobbies for exactly this reason. We are empty nesters, and we have now been empty nesters for long enough where we're like, okay, let's, you know, figure out what to do with ourselves. And so he has taken up a new sport. I took up knitting, I took up mahjong. And at one point, we kind of said to each other, maybe we should find something new to do together. And I was sort of laughing about it because all of my hobbies that I was taking up were sitting hobbies. I was sitting playing mahjong, I was sitting and knitting, and his are all active hobbies, and he likes to be active. That's always been a thing. He always has liked to be active. So there's not a problem there, but I was just sort of laughing at myself, like, why am I always sitting? I need to do something active. And so that's when we came up with the idea of I would get a bike because the last bike I had had, I'd used for many, many years, and it was so old and the gears wouldn't work. And so we had gotten rid of it a few years ago. And so I did. And we've only gone biking together a couple of times, but I sort of felt strongly, we were in agreement, that we needed to find some things to do together. And we love to travel together, we like to play golf together. And he likes to play golf more than I do. So he goes and plays with his friends, and I play with him sometimes, and that's all fine. But we just thought, you know, as we're coming up with these new hobbies, maybe we better come up with joint hobbies as well. And that has been a good thing for us. It doesn't always happen, though, right? You you drift into these things that you enjoy. There's nothing wrong with enjoying different things, but you drift and you drift and you drift, and you end up a little bit farther apart than you maybe even realized. And sometimes that ends up with really wondering whether you want to stay together. And that's not the case for me. We are fully planning to stay together. I better knock on some wood, right? But

Gray Divorce Trends And What Drives It

Cheryl Fischer 11:51

this is very common and it gets called gray divorce. And so what's really happening? We're living longer lives than we used to live a hundred or more years ago. We, as women, have more financial independence, meaning if a couple is to split up, the woman is not necessarily completely dependent on the man, like it used to be. When major life transitions happen, like I'm just talking about empty nest, then we tend to reevaluate things. And if we're not communicating well, like James was talking about last week, and we don't feel seen, all of that is like this cauldron mix of stuff that can make people feel like, I don't know if I want to be in this marriage anymore. Now, the interesting thing is that Gen X, which is what I am and what a lot of you are, I'm guessing you are either Gen X or maybe an elder millennial listening to this. The surge, interestingly, in the divorce rate has up to this point mostly been baby boomers. Here are some stats for you. Divorce rates doubled for Americans 55 and older and tripled for Americans 65 and older from 1990 to 2021. Even as, this is important, the overall all ages divorce rate was falling. Now that's only US statistics, and I know a lot of you are listening from other places in the world. So it's possible you have a similar pattern, but it may not be exactly the same. The share of adults 65 and older who are divorced rose from about 5% in 1990 to about 15% in 2022. And about one in 10 people who are getting divorced now is 65 or older. These are big numbers for that age group. Another interesting statistic, and this is why I think it's worth talking about it on a podcast where I'm a woman and I'm talking to you, who is probably a woman. Women initiate about two-thirds of divorces among people 40 to 66. Now, let me say again, I'm gonna try to remember to say this a few times. If you're in an unhealthy or unsafe relationship, I'm not saying you shouldn't leave that relationship. Obviously, if it's appropriate to leave because there is a major issue, then that's what you need to do. However, these numbers that are just climbing, climbing, climbing are there's something going on here. So maybe some of these relationships can be mended. Maybe we can try to do a better job and try to communicate better and try to figure out ways that we can heal our relationships before we end up at the point of divorce. And unfortunately, even though we have more financial independence as women in general, after a gray divorce, our standard of living as women tends to drop more than men's. So, again, not a reason to stay in an unhealthy situation. It's a reason to work on it before it gets there. So, Cheryl, you're saying, how do you think we should be working on it? Well, let's hear what Dr. Jackie has to say.

Daily Joy Touch Words And Rituals

Dr. Jackie Black 15:36

The message is wake up in the morning, look for joy. Where ask yourself, where will I find joy with my partner today? Look for joy, expect joy, expect to create joy. Um, trouble, problems, strife, challenges will find us. But we really want to be committed to with deliberate intention being joyful with each other. That's wonderful.

Cheryl Fischer 16:04

What are some other things maybe that people could keep an eye out for to realize that, oh, maybe I need to kind of revamp my relationship a little bit at this point.

Dr. Jackie Black 16:16

Physical touching. Physical touching every single day. This is also the what to do, right? It lands. Okay, great. Yes, we'll go right into both. It lands on both sides. Yeah. Um a squeeze of the shoulder as you walk by. I mean, it doesn't have to be bear hugs. Not everybody likes to give hugs or likes to receive hugs, but but physical touch. The shoulder, the back are typically places um that are non-sexual but very comforting that feel really good. Or the squeeze of a hand, um kissing the top of the head or the forehead. Again, less sexual if you're really trying to reignite the spark or trying to come back and find each other. So physical touch every single day. Okay. Um, another one is um are words. Let your partner know that they matter. I am so happy that I'm here with you. And I don't think I've told you that in a long time. Have I told you lately how much I see you doing for us? And it means a lot to me. So let your partner know talk words, and if you have to AI it in order to get some ideas, go ahead and do that. Or Google it, go ahead and do that. But make sure that you've got um an arsenal, if you will, or or uh what do they call a quiver of arrows? Yes, things right that you can say. So we can do little things, just have to think about what do you do in your day already? Which brings me to daily habitual sharing. Daily habitual sharing. Yeah, this one is great. So if you do the dishes every night, just let's say you do the dishes every night, maybe there's a stool that you pick up um at Crate & Barrel, and he can pull the stool over close to the side of the sink and hang out with you for a few minutes so that it's a ritual. He doesn't do it every single night, but something that you already do that you can do together. Um he might bring you, might bring him, he might bring you, she might bring you coffee, right? And you might sit for 10 or 15 minutes and have coffee before you zip out into your day. So rituals, rituals that you can do together, things that you already do that you can now do together. Always like you know, taking a walk is really great. Even if it's dark, even if it's cold, go with him when he takes the dog for a walk.

Cheryl Fischer 19:20

I like that.

Dr. Jackie Black 19:21

Yeah, I and you don't even have to talk. In fact, not talking is preferred. So these are not opportunities to catch up, to problem solve, no problem solving, as a matter of fact. These are opportunities to connect, to just sit with each other or walk with each other, just to have a time for connection and to quiet your brain and open your heart. So valuable.

Cheryl Fischer 19:49

There's a lot of things that are fairly easy to do if we're intentional. Daily non-sexual touch, creating not just a we happen to live in the same house relationship, but a relationship that is more personal. Saying appreciation out loud. This can also be words of affirmation, especially if you have a spouse whose one of their love languages is words of affirmation, noticing what they're doing, thanking them, telling them that you see what they're doing, acts of service, pick up dinner, walk the dog, do whatever you can. And then the one that I really enjoy is finding ways to do things you already do, but do them together. And that's, I think, sort of what my husband and I were trying to figure out as we were thinking, we need a hobby that we do together. But this can be simpler than that. Those little rituals, things that already fit in the day, all those little things, it didn't, and you don't have to do all of them. That's probably bad wording on my part. You can pick one and it still brings you closer together. And then if you do need to have an important talk, schedule it ahead of time. That's a big deal. Because not ambushing each other is also a way of making that relationship feel closer.

When You Feel Like The Only One

Cheryl Fischer 21:20

Okay, so then let's say you are having coffee together in the morning, you've both decided that you're going to try a new hobby. What if it feels like you're the only one trying? And that could be you start out these things that you're doing together, but one person is really just kind of not invested, is not participating with a good attitude to use my teacher voice. Or if maybe they just kind of fall off and fall away, and you're the only one who's trying to do any of these things. Or change any of these habits. That's definitely possible. It's hard to change habits. Our brains want us to stay safe. You know, I say on the couch in a Snuggie, that's where your brain wants you to be. So changing habits is not on the couch in a snuggie. Changing habits is a little bit more scary. It's not necessarily the comfort zone. So if you're the only one trying and you are starting to feel a certain type of way about that, here's what Dr. Jackie says.

Dr. Jackie Black 22:32

I say to couples, as long as you're still there, there's still hope. As long as you're still there, there's an opportunity for connection. Something is going on, or one of you would be gone. So I see that as huge. And often couples, um generally it's wives will say, he's not saying anything, he's not sharing, he's not, and I keep saying, he's showing up. And that's that's and that's enough.

Cheryl Fischer 23:01

And truly, this might be a situation where you need someone to help you. So as James said in last week's episode, if he's withdrawn, but he's there, that's a starting point. If he's there, but you can tell he's not thrilled about this particular activity, he's still there. And you wish he was doing it differently, but he's still there. But maybe when you're feeling this out of balance, because we know there's still hope, because both of you are still present, maybe this is time to have someone help you. And there are so many couples counselors and couples coaches out there that can help you work on relationships. The biggest question I've heard is well, what if I'm the only one who's willing to go? It might still be worth it, is the answer to that. Because maybe you learn how to communicate in a way that maybe resonates more with the other person. Or maybe you learn about some of the things that have been an issue for you. A relationship coach might still be able to help. Obviously, it's ideal if both of you are willing to participate. But even if only one of you goes, potentially still helpful. So, what's the one thing that I want you to remember from this relationship topic?

Catch The Drift Before It Grows

Cheryl Fischer 24:34

Pay attention to the drift. A few episodes ago, I talked about how we often drift through life, drift through our careers, just drift through our days, almost as if we're hypnotized. This is also applicable to relationships. We can drift through and not really pay attention to what's going on. And unfortunately, we can also drift apart. And so just because you're not arguing doesn't mean everything is great. Ask yourself, when was the last time we really talked, had a whole conversation about something? We both wanted to be in that conversation. When was the last time we were laughing together? Laughing is such a big part of my life. It's so important. When was the last time we were touching on purpose, even if it's not sexual touching? When was the last time? Notice. Because if it was recently, then maybe you're not drifting apart, maybe you're good. But it's catching it early that is a big key. And then start to see if you can create some of this we, a habit you do together. What are we looking forward to? Where are we going to go on our vacation next together? And do some of these little daily connections, little touches, sitting with each other while you're doing regular things, little things, because it adds up. Isn't that interesting? It adds up, it changes how we think about the other person and it changes how we assume where they're gonna be and what they're gonna do. And if you need help, get help. If you are in a place where you are in a relationship you want to be in, but you're struggling a little bit, I hope this helps. And thank you, Dr. Jackie, for those clips that I brought back from quite some time ago.

Closing Thoughts And How To Connect

Cheryl Fischer 26:39

Come find me on social media at @cherylpfischer. DM me and tell me, did this help? What has been your experience? I would love to hear from you. And make sure you've hit the follow button because next week I am going to be talking to a psychologist who works with sports mindset. And maybe you're not a professional athlete. I bet most of us aren't, but maybe you're taking up a new hobby or coming back to something you used to do, and you're getting all in your own way about it. In the meantime, keep remembering, midlife is your time to take just a little bit better care of yourself on the outside and on the inside. Just a little bit more care makes a big difference.