54. Changemakers: Redefining Aging Through Surfing and Movement for Women Over 50, with Inessa Love

0:00 Surfing. Have you ever tried it? I will confess I have never tried surfing, and I'm not sure that I will. Never say never, though. And boy, is that a lesson I've learned over and over in life. Never say never. So today we're gonna talk about the fact that you can do a whole heck of a lot more than you think you can at whatever age you're at right now. Stick with me. Welcome to Mind Your Midlife, your go-to resource for confidence and success, one thought at a time.

0:41 Unlike most advice out there, we believe that simply telling you to believe in yourself or change your habits isn't enough to wake up excited about life or feel truly confident in your body. Each week, you'll gain actionable strategies and oh my goodness, powerful insights to stop feeling stuck and start loving your midlife. This is the Mind Your Midlife podcast. You may have heard me say before that I was not an athlete when I was growing up. My sister was, for sure, and a lot of my friends were. Oh my gosh.

1:22 So that takes some movement and marching and routine learning, but I didn't play any sports, and I didn't really have the quickness and the hand-eye coordination to really do any sporting type thing. And that's the way I thought of myself is not athletic until I started to realize how powerful it was to move my body. And I have tried so many things since spinning classes and taekwondo. When my kids were doing it, I was doing it for a little while as well. And certainly walking and hiking and going to the gym with a personal trainer, so many things over the years.

2:07 Boxing at a boxing gym, not with people, but with a bag. And now you might know I do bar class and I love it, and I'm learning golf and I'm enjoying that most of the time. And there are women in our age group, and by our age group, I mean 40s, 50s, 60s, and beyond who are doing truly amazing things in terms of being active and taking up new sports and new activities. And this is what we're going to talk about today because in our heads we tend to limit ourselves so much.

2:50 You probably have some type of self-definition, and that's what I would mean by self-image in your head about what you can and can't do, just like what you just heard me say. I didn't think I was sporty. I'm doing air quotes. I didn't think I was sporty. I didn't think I was athletic. So I was trying to find things that I could do that were active, but they didn't require someone who, again, air quotes, wasn't athletic. Now, maybe you have a very different self-definition and you absolutely have been an athlete and you believe in your body's ability to move, or you'd fall somewhere in the middle.

3:30 But so often, these mental hangups that we have about what we can do and what we can learn are the real issue behind us not trying that thing we always wanted to do. And so I want to inspire you. And my guest today is Inessa Love. Inessa discovered surfing around her 50th birthday, and five years later, it has transformed her life. She's the co-founder of Sassy Silver Surfers, which is an online community of midlife women surfers.

4:14 And she has an Instagram that you will love. And interestingly, she is a PhD researcher and advocate for active aging, and she's writing a book about a cycling adventure that you're gonna hear her talk about. So I think you're gonna like this conversation. And let me just pause right here because this is the first episode of our Change Makers series. There are so many women like you out there in the world who have revamped personally, professionally, often both, during this midlife period.

4:59 And by that I mean 40s, 50s. And you're gonna hear an amazing story on today's episode. I have more coming for you. It's gonna be an occasional series about women who have changed it all during midlife and really just done amazing things. And if that's you, go to the show notes, click the link where you can send me a text and text me and let me know, and I will send you a form. Maybe you can be on mind your midlife. I would love to talk to you. Here we go. So welcome, Inessa. Thanks for joining me.

5:40 Thank you, Cheryl. This is really fun and great to be here. Okay, so for you, I know that staying active in midlife and particularly surfing, which we're gonna talk about, is a powerful topic. So tell us how that happened and what you do with your surfing group. Yeah, so I'll tell you a little bit of a backstory. The most important thing is I was not active when I was young. In my 20s, I barely did anything. I maybe rollerblade in Central Park. I lived in New York. On a good weather day, I would rollerblade around Central Park, you know, maybe once a week, three months out of the year.

6:21 So I was not active when I was young. And the older I got, the more active I got. So it's like not what I thought it's gonna be. I thought when you get older, you get less active. Well, my case is the opposite. So I'm actually that's why I'm an advocate for being active in midlife because I realized that we can. I realize that we can. And uh, this whole story about it's downhill and being less active is wrong because I am now more active, as I said, than I was in my 20s and 30s. It kind of started slowly in my late 30s, early 40s. I got into like tai chi and yoga and a little bit of martial arts.

7:01 So that was kind of my gentle entryway, and then mid-40s, I got divorced and I started hiking, and hiking became my therapy, and I was hiking quite a bit. In Hawaii, I'm so lucky there's so much hiking, and then doing yoga and and uh doing acro yoga. So I was fairly active when I got into surfing, but I feel like surfing took it to a whole other level. And I started learning surfing at 50, which is another like myth or something I thought it would be definitely too late. I lived in Hawaii for eight years before I started surfing, just because I never thought about it. It didn't even occur to me that it was accessible, and then just kind of random was COVID, and a friend was taking a lesson, and she said, Hey, come join me on this lesson.

7:52 And I was like, Okay, there was nothing to do, and they closed the hiking trails. So I went and joined her on the lesson, completely random, and I was like, Oh wow, it's not as bad as as scary as I thought it would be. Because you know, you go in the small waves, the white water, they push you, you stand up, and it's just like, oh, that's interesting. And so that's how I started surfing, and now I'm I'm gonna be 55 in September, and I feel like I'm in a better physical shape than I was in my 30s for sure. Mid 30s, I did pretty much nothing. I had a young child at 34 and did nothing except going to the park and play on the slides with him, right?

8:35 Yeah, so yeah, and I think it's just so possible. It's just and and the other thing is I am happier now too. And I think the mental health and physical activity goes so well together, especially finding something that we love doing. It just gives such a boost of endorphin. I went surfing today, you might have sewed my white face, I just took it off, but it just gives me such a boost of endorphins, and there's all these happy hormones. And when we move our bodies, I feel like our emotions follow, our mind follow. So it's not just really physical strength, it gives me mental strength, it gives me more like emotional balance, really.

9:20 Yeah, and that helps with menopause and all of these other things, right? Just feeling a little more balanced. Like whenever I go surfing, whenever I get in the water, I'm always happier afterwards. Even if I didn't have a great session, even if I didn't catch many waves, I'm almost always happier afterwards. You know, it's interesting because I think surfing might be the perfect combination of you're doing something active and you feel good about that, and you're in the water, which is really good for mental health, and you're on the beach, which is good for grounding and mental health.

10:02 It's kind of the perfect combo. It definitely is, and it's not just me. I hear from so many women that it's exactly the case, right? You're aware of all the research about uh blue mind, there is an awesome book called Blue Mind that talks about how just being near a big body of water just affects our psychology and our physiology as well. It's amazing, yeah. And what is it about surfing in particular? Because I'm aware that somebody listening might be near somewhere they could surf and they might not be at all, of course. Yes, but what is it about this that has really uh affected your body and your physical fitness and has helped you to get in shape?

11:24 Well, there's so many things, just like wait, like just like you said, being in the water, being in the ocean, it's really, really amazing. Uh another thing is it was really challenging. I have to be honest, because starting to learn surfing at the 50s, it wasn't easy. And I was in a decent shape. I was never an athlete, as I said, but I was in a good shape by the time I started, but still it was so difficult. And there is part of me that likes like overcoming challenges. So there is just like, oh, I gotta, I have to get it. I just have to get it, and that never stops because now that I'm finally getting it, five years later, like I want to get better now.

12:04 So it's almost like you know, like why video games are so addictive, because you have levels and you pass one level, and there is a next level that is, you know, has all these new coins to collect. And there is always this journey with surfing. You never like reach the point, and maybe some people do those who've surfed their whole life, right? But for me, it's still like I'm still learning, and I love that aspect of it too, that I'm still learning and still it's still physically challenging, but it also like it has this perfect combo of a challenge and reward. The reward is just also so amazing. Like when you catch a wave, that's just a feeling of like, oh, I really did it.

12:45 Wow, you know, just nothing like it. Like that moment of wow is incredible, and of course, before that moment of wow, there's moment of like, oh shit, am I gonna catch it or am I gonna wipe out? Um, so that's that moment is there too. Almost every time there is this little fear moment, and sometimes it's more than fear, it's close to panic, like, oh my god, what's gonna happen? And then it's just like this ecstasy, really. Yeah, and you know what? I can't think of very many other physical fitness type of things that would have that sort of immediate risk reward like that. That's interesting.

13:26 Yeah, maybe that's why surfing is really addictive. Like that I'm talking to people now, so I'm also talking to so many women because of this. This releases this dopamine, right? It's not like going on a hike. Hike is great, and I still love hiking. But this dopamine, the hit that it hits you with, it's really something. That's why I think it's like a video game, it has that element of a little bit of an addiction to it, but it's the healthiest addiction you know I can think of. I agree. If you're gonna get addicted to something like this, then okay, right. So you have a group, sassy silver surfers. Tell us what you're doing with that group.

14:07 How did that come about? So, how it came about is when I started surfing at 50, I saw, you know, women in the lineup, and most of them were younger, but occasionally I would see an older woman and I would like gravitate toward them. I would just like, okay, I need to meet that woman, I need to learn from that woman. And I would be just like approaching them and made some friends. Like I have a friend who surfs here, she's in her 70s, and she's just such a role model for me. And so for me, on my journey to learn, it was really helpful to find those kind of role models and people I can look up to and people could I can say, okay, if she's surfing, I can learn. I have 20 more years to get to that level.

14:49 And so that's why I started this group with my colleague Lisa Alfono. We connected on Facebook and she was kind of saying the same thing. I want a group for older women surfers, and I'm like, oh, and I want a group for older women surfers, let's do it together. So, two years ago, more than two years, we started this Facebook group that is Sassy Silver Surfers, and there are women from all over the world, and we're very, how should I say, exclusive. You have to be 50 and over, and you have to be a woman. Now we don't check your level of surfing. You can say you're surf curious and you just want inspiration. Uh, that's also fine. But it's a closed group, and so more recently I started doing this Instagram, also called Sassy Silver Surfers, with the same kind of mission of inspiring other women and giving other women role models that I didn't have.

15:44 If I had them in my 40s, I would have started eight years earlier. If I just saw, oh, this is possible and so much fun. Why didn't I start earlier? So I'm sharing now this story, my own story and my own what I've learned and the tips, and also other women's stories. Um yesterday I shared a story of a woman who started learning to surf at 66. Can you imagine? 66. She went to her first all women's surf retreat in Costa Rica. Now she's 69 and she's surfing. She moved to Costa Rica from California, and she says she never looked back.

16:28 And those kinds of things inspire me so much, and that's why I love sharing that, and that's what I do on my Instagram. I'm sharing stories like that to provide inspiration, that it's not too late. And surfing, of course, is not for everybody. Now I'm so surprised continuously how many women say I always wanted to try. In fact, just this morning, like an hour before, I checked a comment from one of the women, and she's 54, and she said, I always wanted to surf. And now I just took my second lesson and I'm booked my third. And it just gives me so much joy, you know, like the women doing that, you know, and sharing that.

17:14 It's just like I'm almost, you know, touched to tears that she, you know, ended up sharing that on Instagram. You know, we can expand that to other things for sure, because I definitely have had conversations with so many women who've said, I always wanted to do whatever. Right. Right. And somehow we never did it, we didn't have time, or the kids were growing up, or we didn't think we could do it, or who knows what the reason was. But now we can do so many of those things. It's amazing. Yeah, absolutely. I just um made this post the other day about midlife is for us.

17:57 I feel like when we were all younger as women, we always kind of serve others, our kids, our partners, our work, our parents. It's just uh I was the last thing on my list of things to do when my son was growing up, and when I was trying to have a family and a full-time career, that was really hard. But now that we got to midlife, that's one of the perks. Most of the people like in their 50s, children already mostly out of the house, and that's the time we can devote it. And absolutely right, you know, it doesn't have to be surfing, it's something, you know, it could be something, but we have all these dreams, and I think so many women want to move more, they just don't know where to start or how to start, or just like intimidated by it.

18:45 But I personally am a strong advocate for moving, whatever it is doesn't have to be surfing. So I think I mentioned to you that last summer I went on this bike trip, and I'm not a cyclist, I bike to my work, it's three miles each way, and I was like, Yeah, cool, I'm in a great shape. And then I signed up for this 250-mile bike ride last summer with my son. And I think surfing gave me a little bit of more confidence and strength too. So I'm like, I'm in a good shape, I can do it. And so I started training really, really hard. I was on break from my work, so for three weeks I trained really hard.

19:26 Like basically, that's all I did bike and sleep and eat. And then I went on this tour and I did a 250-mile trip with my son. And I cannot say it was easy, but it was in a way life-changing too. Yeah, and and the reason why it was life-changing is I was 54, and I, you know, we have I still have those thoughts. Like, is it too late for me to be doing it? I never cycled more than three miles, maybe five. And now all of a sudden, I went on my first ride and I did 15 miles, and I thought I was gonna die because next morning I woke up and I had to take like painkillers and take a bath, and I'm just like, what did I do to my body?

20:07 But slowly, that's amazing. Like after that 15 miles, and I was so beat up, but like three days later I did 17, and three days after that I did 19, and I slowly started building to it, and my body adapted to it. We are just more adaptable than we think we are. Nature is so uh wise and smart because the more we move, you know, we break down the muscle, but then it rebuilds it stronger. Otherwise, it's not gonna build a strong muscle if we don't break it down, you know, because it's expensive in terms of energy and you know resources that the body has to use to rebuild those muscles.

20:50 So I came up with this mantra: the more we move, the stronger we become. The more we move, the stronger we become, and it's just inevitable. But we have to move more, we have to move more next day than we did the day before, right? So the bike ride, and the reason it changed my life is I met this woman who was 85, my friend Sue, on that ride. 85. She was riding a bicycle, she did not have any bike, she had a regular road bike, and the first day on the tour, it's 50-mile day, and by the end of it, I'm just I just done with it.

21:32 I'm so done, like I don't want to be doing it anymore. And I was just exhausted, and there is like one last hill. So I met up with Sue like a few miles before that last heel, and we started chatting, and she was I was blown away. I knew there was an oldest rider on the tour, was 85. So I just was so lucky. Okay, here you are, and then on that last hill, we start going up. Guess what? She passes me, she passes me, and she goes, you know, she leaves me behind on that hill. And I was just like, what? What is this? I don't understand. So that changed my life, really. That just not just that moment, but learning, meeting her, and learning about Sue and her lessons and how did she end up there, right?

22:21 And that's the message that I want to send. It that does it's not about surfing. She loves biking. I don't love biking, I'm never gonna love biking. I'm never gonna be a cyclist. I cycle now just to maintain a little bit what I've gained. But she likes it, and that's another lesson is finding what you like, finding what works for you. Because in in our society, we are told to go exercise, but exercise is boring. Going to exercise when we have to, it's not fun. You're practicing golf, right? Or you're learning something, right? I'm learning golf, yes. Yeah, I saw that.

23:02 It's so fun because I think just learning something, whatever it is, that process of learning, it's what keeps us young because it works on our brain and it works on our body, and it's actually as you're learning your, you know, what you call it, this the swing, golf swing, you work in your brain and your body at the same time. And that's actually research shows that it's that's what keeps our brain young, it's what prevents Alzheimer's, is well moving body and mind at the same time, right? And that happens when we learn a new skill. Did you always want to learn golf, or how did that start for you? Yeah, that's a good question.

23:43 So I took some la how you know what it was? I was like you, and I never played any sports. And I I don't have great hand-eye coordination when it comes to trying to hit something that's coming at me and play some sort of racket sport. And so my husband has always liked golf. And I thought to myself, you know what? I see people of all ages doing this, and the ball is not moving. Maybe learn how to hit something that's not moving, and I could walk around on these beautiful golf courses and get some exercise.

24:24 Maybe I should learn. Now, of course, and this is true of surfing, I'm sure, too. It's not easy to get better at golf. It takes dedication and practice, it's a tricky thing to learn, and that's okay. I just try to really look at it as it's good for me, and let me try and have fun, and that's it. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. It's so great that you started learning that too at midlife. Absolutely. What I learned to make it more fun is to it with a friend. So, yeah, you know what? Community is a big deal for us at this stage of life, and that is one of the reasons I'm really impressed with what you're doing, bringing women together uh locally and all over the world, because I think we we talk ourselves out of things, we get bored, it's not fun.

25:16 You know, there's so many different things we do to ourselves, but if we have a community of people, it really changes everything. Yeah, it's absolutely true. So I think we never meant to be alone. We are social creatures. One way to make it fun is do it with a friend. Yep. Okay, so let's talk about stereotypes a little bit, because another thing that you have said is that you are really trying to break down or change the stereotypes that exist related to midlife women and being active in sports. So tell me more about what you mean. I mean, I think I know, but for the listener, what are those stereotypes?

25:56 Tell us more about that. One stereotype is that we're supposed to get weaker with age. I'm seeing women now who surf in their 60s and their 70s, and they're probably stronger than me, too. And that woman, Sue, who passed me on the hill at 85, she was way stronger than me. So, how is it possible that we get weaker with age? That's complete. You know what? No, I want to say BS, but it's totally wrong. We can get stronger at any age. Even if someone had a lifetime of not moving and they start moving, they're gonna get stronger. It's just inevitable. That's how bodies are built. So I guess those two things that the decline is not inevitable.

26:40 It's not inevitable, but we create it by not moving. Yeah, we create the decline. Now, I have to be honest to say it may not be easy. It's simple. The prescription is simple. Just keep moving and move a little more every day, you know. But it's not easy to do because it is difficult. It's difficult to learn something new, it's difficult to pick a bike at 54 and start riding 15 miles. It was difficult. I don't want to make it sound like easy, but it's doable and it's achievable. And doing it together makes it more achievable because then we see role models and then we have the support of the community.

27:22 That's a social thing. And she says we go lunch after, it's a social thing. And I feel like that keeps us going, having a community that supports us, having friends to do it with, and just we have to keep doing it. But going, you know, to a gym for an hour once a week or twice a week, that's not enough. That's especially as we get older. So maybe that's another stereotype they want to break is we have to actually move a little more when we get old. We have to move more, and we can. We can slowly we can build up to it. What is what other stereotypes you think there are around midlife? Let's break them all. Well, I think we expect that we're gonna have more trouble moving and we're gonna get less flexible, and we're gonna get, we're gonna be able to, you know, get up and down off the floor less easily, and everything is gonna get harder.

28:15 And I think that probably would be true unless we keep moving. And as you said, maybe a little more each day, maybe a little more. And one thing I say on the podcast all the time is we need to just take a little bit better care of ourselves in this point, just a little bit better than we used to, and that will make the difference. Yeah, for sure. And you're absolutely right. Those things will get harder if we don't do them. Getting off the floor will get harder if we don't do them, and flexibility is as well. I'm a yoga teacher too. So once I started surfing, I went and I got my yoga teacher training. Like two or two years into surfing, I decided that I wanted to learn more about the body, and because surfing is hard, and how to help myself both prepare and recover, because recovery becomes also a thing that we need to be aware of.

29:12 So I've been all doing yoga a little bit, doubling into it for like 20 years, but then after surfing, I decided I want to get trained, so I went and learned and become a registered yoga teacher, and now what I teach is yoga for surfers because it kind of combines the two things. Love it, but understanding the body and how it's designed and how it's built and how it's meant to move, yeah, it's really helping me too, it's helping me with my surfing. And my friend Sue, who was 85, she says, Oh, I need to stretch more, and she does, but if she can ride her bike better than me at 85, she's doing fine. Yeah, she is. She found what she loves doing and she doesn't love stretching, so she's you know, she's not perfect, right?

29:58 Okay, let's say that someone is listening and they're thinking, okay, this sh you make it sound really fun. That's what I'm thinking. And let's say someone is thinking that as they're listening. If they're really not active at this point and they want to get started, what advice would you give? The first advice I would give is find a friend to do it together. I'm sure you know a friend who is in the same boat. Because eight out of ten midlife women who are not active wish they were more active. So, out of ten midlife women you know, eight of them want to be more active. So that would be absolutely first thing to do is to find a friend or maybe a couple and say, hey, let's try something together.

30:45 And then just keep trying something until you find something that you really like. Because it's hard to maintain or sustain doing something long term at the right level of intensity if you don't love it. True. So you have to find something that you love. You know, it could be pickleball, it could be golf, it could be yoga. You know, some people like uh hiking and swimming in the pool if you don't have the ocean, or something that you like doing. And I feel like that's the key. Two keys to start is have a friend or a few that you want to try it together, and then try a few things until something clicks and you're just like, I like this. I can see myself doing this quite a bit for quite a long time.

31:28 Because what happened to me when I was young is I would try to quote unquote exercise and it never stuck. It never stuck because exercising sucks. I'm not actually recommending exercise. I'm recommending finding movement activity that you love doing and keep doing it at the level of intensity that is building with friends. That's my recommendation. But just start, okay. We all gonna we've all been there. I'm gonna start this new program. I'm gonna buy this new app, and I'm gonna sign up for this gym membership that I'm not gonna use after two weeks. We've all been there, I've done that too. So that's my two recommendations is finding a friend and finding what you love doing with a friend.

32:14 That's the best thing. Perfect. And I'm gonna add to that because there's this little voice in my head that's kind of the snarky midlife woman. I'm gonna add to that. And if you don't like it, then move on and try something else. Like we are too old. I hate to use that word, but we are too old to do stuff we don't like. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. I love that. I wanted to make that clear. You try different things until something click. You know, you try pickleball for a few times and try it more than once. You know, try something more than once, too, because sometimes try it three times. Make a rule that I'm gonna try something new three times. Whatever you wherever you leave, what's around you, but then you're right, keep moving because forcing ourselves to do it is not gonna work.

32:58 Because if it hasn't worked until now, it probably wouldn't work, right? I mean, some people can keep forcing themselves to do something. I'm not that way. It really took me finding what I loved. And before surfing, I loved acra yoga, which was done in community in partners, and it was fun, right? So doing something in community that was fun, and that helped me a lot to get my body in a good shape. And and we've always heard the advice to have a partner to exercise with, or maybe like an accountability partner to check in with. But even that, looking at it from that way of accountability, that's not fun. That feels like an obligation. So I like that you're saying it's just to make it fun, it's just to make it easier.

33:42 Let's do it together. Yeah. Yeah, make it a social thing, grab coffee after, or whatever it is that that you two like doing, or three, or fine. Now, there is also all these different groups. When I started hiking, I joined meetup, and where I live in my area, there are a lot of hiking group meetups, so I would go with different groups, and to be honest, it's a little intimidating at first. You're showing up alone in a group of strangers, and it is intimidating. I wish I had a friend to go with. I had my embarking friend, so I brought him. But the finding groups, maybe there are Facebooks in your groups in your area, maybe there are meetup groups, joining some groups because I totally believe that in terms of sustaining an activity, is finding a community is very important.

34:31 Absolutely. Okay, well, let me make sure that I ask you this so that people who are kind of looking for you or your community know where to find you. So if somebody wants to know more about what you're doing with surfing or about the group you have, where should they find you? Right. So if they particularly are interested in surfing for women 50 and over, they can join our Facebook group, which is a closed group, and it's a very supportive group. Now, if you just want to get inspired by sort of seeing older women doing hard things, such as surfing, then anyone can join and follow me on Instagram. It's also called Sassy Silver Surfers, but I like sharing stories of older women doing cool things and inspiring other people.

35:17 And if you're listening, I will tell you that her Instagram really is inspiring. So that is definitely something that everyone should do. I love it. Yeah, and I I just recently did a poll. Only 50% of my followers are actually surfers, and some of them are just sort of what I call surf curious. It's like maybe I want to try it one day. And some of them are not even curious about surfing, but they're there for inspiration, exactly. Because may uh some woman shared there recently that you know she's she's doing on this horse riding trip and she's putting her horse saddle in her surfboard and she's doing some kind of project with it. So there's not only surfers there, but just people who got inspired by that messaging that we can reclaim our strength, we we can do hard things, we can be badass, uh sassy silver surfers in our f 60s and 70s.

36:10 And that's an inspiring message. I think the world needs to hear that message because what if women are happier in midlife, how much better the world will be. Right? Yes, that's what you're doing too. That's exactly right. That's what you're doing too. You're making helping women to be happier in midlife, and I feel like it's such a worthwhile goal, it's just so important. I definitely agree. Okay, so let's say somebody's been listening to this and they're doing their laundry or they're driving in the car or whatever, and they can't remember everything we talked about, but they can maybe remember one thing. What is the most important thing you want somebody to remember from this discussion?

36:54 The more you move, the stronger you become. That's my favorite saying recently. I I don't know if anyone said it before, but it's my mantra. Remember that. The more you move, the stronger you become, and you can get stronger at any age. Yes. And it's really about quality of life. Yes, even more so than it was when we were younger. Fully agree. Yes. Yes, awesome. Well, Inessa, thank you so much for joining me. I really think this is going to be inspiring for a lot of people. Yeah, it was awesome. Thank you for having me. I have such a feeling of happiness and optimism from this conversation.

37:34 Keep moving, do more movement, and we'll get stronger. Isn't that such an optimistic view? And let me tell you what, you may have heard me talk about this. I have a family member who has a debilitating disease. And the advice that she received early on in that disease was please exercise, keep moving all parts of your body because if you keep moving, you decline more slowly. Now, that's someone who has a very difficult disease.

38:16 If we're healthy right now, let's take that bigger, keep moving, and as Inessa said, we keep getting stronger. We are not declining unless we let it happen. And I just love, love, love that perspective. And you'll need to tell me if you know how to surf or if you are trying surfing, because even though I'm not sure I'm ever gonna do it, I'm also not really near an ocean very often. Maybe you are, and maybe you love it just the way Inessa does, and I would love to hear about that. And in the meantime, if you're listening on Spotify or Apple, if you would tap the five stars for a rating, that would be amazing.

39:04 It helps the podcast apps know to get the word out about Mind Your Midlife to more midlife women. And on Apple, leave a quick review. That would be amazing. I appreciate you taking the time to do that. In the meantime, slow down, notice what's going on in your head, what's going on around you, and let's create something amazing.