Boost Your Brain and Relieve Stress by Learning Music in Midlife, with Nicole Kovar (Ep. 16)

0:00 And midlife can be a time when we lose our way a little bit. And we know that we need to do things that are good for our brains, good for our bodies. But what are those things? What do we want to do? What do we like to do? What was that thing that you like to do when you were 20? Do you remember? I don't know if I remember. So I want to help you to support your brain, support your body, and have something that you like to do in your spare time that is enjoyable and healthy. And you know what? That might actually be playing music. I am really excited to talk about that with today's guest. So stick with me.

0:46 Welcome to Mind Your Midlife, your go-to resource for confidence and success, one thought at a time. Unlike most advice out there, we believe that simply telling you to believe in yourself or change your habits isn't enough to wake up excited about life or feel truly confident in your body. Each week, you'll gain actionable strategies and, oh my goodness, powerful insights to stop feeling stuck and start loving your midlife. This is the Mind Your Midlife podcast. About a year ago, I decided that I was going to learn violin.

1:27 And I never had, and I, for some reason, had always wanted to. And so I got a violin, I got a violin teaching app, and I tried it, and I wasn't very consistent. And of all the things I already know about music, and you probably know this too, consistency is the key. So I kind of had some frustration and some joy because I was enjoying it. I was happy about it in equal measure. And then I put it down when I got busy. Here's the thing, though. In midlife, as women, we often do have a little bit more time on our hands, and we might be looking for something meaningful to do with that time. We might be looking for a hobby.

2:14 We might be looking back to try to remember who we were 20-some years ago and what we were interested in. Well, that's why I want to talk about music. My guest today, Nicole Kovar is the founder and executive director of Piano and More, which is a music studio in Arlington, Virginia. She loves to work with students of all ages and backgrounds, and she actually, you'll hear her say this, she has a degree in health education and a master's in science, so she loves the brain aspect of music as well. And I love that.

2:57 She has over a decade of experience running the studio and over 15 years experience teaching. I think you're really going to enjoy what we're going to talk about today. Here we go. Welcome, Nicole. Thank you. I'm happy to be here. I'm excited about this conversation. Let's just start with the basics. How did you end up teaching music and running a music school? It's an interesting story. I like to say it was an accident. It was never planned. If you would have told me when I was eight years old and I was taking piano lessons, I wouldn't have believed you.

3:37 But it did happen, and I'm happy to be here. And it basically just started like I was tutoring as a side hustle after grad school. And I tutored all kinds of services like math, science, English, English as a second language. And I was also teaching piano and guitar and voice. So I was doing all these little things, just trying to see what worked. And before I knew it, I started to accumulate a lot of piano students. And then I maxed out and I quit my full-time job and decided, okay, private piano lessons, this is what I'm good at. I built a wait list, and I really enjoyed being a piano teacher, and it really just took off.

4:22 So as I'm building this waiting list, parents are starting to suggest, like, you have this really unique method. It's a different perspective than other piano teachers. Like, I literally had students that were coming to me from other piano teachers. And they're like, maybe you should start hiring other teachers, train them your method and make it into a business. And I was a lot younger then. I started teaching around 24, 25. So I was just like, who would listen to me? Like, how am I going to manage other teachers? And then I was also like, do I have the credentials for that? Because, yeah, I mean, I do have degrees, but they're in the sciences.

5:04 I was going in a completely different route. I was wanting to do more like health education. And yeah, I was just like, no, that's how can that be for me? And then my waiting list. This is kind of funny. The mom's on the meeting list. A waiting list. They got impatient and they started solving the issues for me. And they would coordinate it all together. They're like, okay, you'll go here, then here. We'll do back to back lessons. That way you can squeeze in as many as you can in the mornings. And here I was teaching 6 a.m. Children. Children were waking up at 6 a.m. for me. So it was pretty crazy. And at At that point, I was like, ah, the demand is really, really strong. How about I give it a try?

5:49 Why not give it a go? So yeah, I started to say, why not try? And I did start hiring teachers. And today I can say I have trained and managed over 50 teachers. And we have collectively taught over hundreds of students in this area. So it's been quite a roller coaster. There have been challenges along the way for sure. But it's amazing what the will to try will organize for you. Like, I didn't have the strategy. I didn't have the plan. I wouldn't even say I had the confidence. Like, I still don't have confidence in everything I do. But I am willing to try. And so it's incredible when you kind of let life take its course.

6:30 You know what? I know this isn't our main topic for this episode, but I love this story anyway. And I've been talking a lot recently, especially with coaching clients, about this idea or phrase of I can figure it out, like to have that be sort of an empowering thing. I'll figure it out. I know I can always figure it out. And that's kind of what you did. You said, OK, let me try. Let's see. It's just that kind of like open mind to see what happens that I think can do amazing things. I really believe that's the key is an open mind and being willing to try. Yeah, I love it. Thank you. Okay, so we agree that this idea of let's try, let's figure it out, keep an open mind is a good one.

7:16 Let's kind of flip this over to our topic for today, which is music and learning a musical instrument. And I think that a lot of us probably think of this as something that kids do. And you said you were teaching piano to kids. Is it worth learning a musical instrument in midlife once were adults? It definitely is a common belief because I see it in our studio. 95% of it is children. So it is a common perception. Most people think piano lessons equals children, guitar lessons. That's for kids. Voice lessons. Like my time has passed. I'm not going to, you know, go out there to my friends and colleagues and I'll tell them I'm a singer, I'm a pianist.

8:01 Like my time has passed. I can't do that anymore. But I'm here to tell you that is not true. I have taught several adult students, and we have a great time, and they do go on to learn pieces and even perform their favorite pieces. I've taught moms. I've taught grandmothers. I've taught men and women that are in the prime stages of their careers, and they've even had different backgrounds. Some of them have had some piano lessons when they were growing up, and then they stopped, and they haven't really touched that again. I've had a couple that they were in their high school's band, and they wanted to try piano. So I've had all kinds of backgrounds, all kinds of ages. I've even had a couple of students that were 70 years and older that were brand new to piano and learning.

8:49 And like I said, they were able to play their favorite pieces. And some of them, if they were brave enough, they even performed them in our recitals. So I am here to tell you, yes, you can learn no matter what the age is. Did they give you reasons for why they wanted to learn? Why they wanted to learn? Yes, definitely. I actually have a story. One of them is Leslie, and she basically just wanted to learn because she always wanted to learn as a child and she never got the opportunity. So she was like, oh, this is my opportunity. I'm going to do it. And she liked learning new things anyway. And a lot of parents also, they would say things like, well, I want my children to see that I can do new things and I'm going to stick to it.

9:32 I want to be the example. I want to be the role model. And so, yeah, they definitely had various reasons and it worked. I love it. So you and I talked about this prior to our conversation right now. I decided that I was going to learn violin about a year and a half ago. And I had an app and I was trying to do it and I was getting frustrated and I wasn't spending enough time and I put it down. And this conversation is reminding me to try again. So if anybody else is in those shoes, maybe this conversation will help. Because what I want to talk about really is what are some of the reasons why we might even bother to try to learn and try to play music at this stage of life?

10:18 What are some of those major advantages? Because I know that you know of some. The biggest one that comes to mind, and this is actually one of the reasons why a lot of parents want their children to learn piano, is because of the cognitive benefits. So I would argue midlife is actually even more of an important time to start exercising the brain. I think most people, they would agree with me. Like if I want to live a long and I want to live well, a long life and live well, then I need to have a good physical body. I need to be fit. I need to incorporate workouts into my lifestyle on a daily basis, right? And it's the same thing with the brain. You have to work out the brain.

11:00 You have to stimulate it and challenge it with cognitive activities. And so there are signs that you'll start to see as you age, right? So some examples are just not being able to like catch that memory or that word. And that happens a lot more frequently than it ever did. Then there's the brain fog. There's slower processing time. And those are signs kind of letting you know like, hey, your brain, things are changing on the inside physically. And so it is time to start stimulating it. And music is a beautiful way to do that because it's an activity that does require so much of your brain. Like pretty much your entire brain is lighting up both hemispheres because you have to stay coordinated. You have to stay in rhythm.

11:46 You're using your senses, your sight, your hearing. You have to develop these fine motor skills that are very specific. You have to build neurons in your fingers or that connect to your fingers so you can develop this very, very fine control. Hand-eye coordination, increasing focus, attention span, concentration. These are all areas that music will help you develop and maintain, strengthen, keeping the mind sharp. So yeah, highly recommended. Yeah, that's a great point because one of the things I hear a lot, and I mean, this is my age group too, so it's from my own story as well, but sometimes what happens to us in midlife is maybe the kids are either old enough to be on their own or they're really out of the house on their own.

12:35 And either we're still working or we're not, but we have suddenly a lot of free time. And it's so tempting to spend that free time lying on the couch, binging Netflix all the time. And we know that's not healthy for us, but maybe we don't know what to do. We, well, it kind of, it almost gets erased. Like, well, what did I like to do when I was younger and I had time to do it? I don't remember. So yes, the cognitive benefits that speaks to me a lot because we know that watching TV all the time is not doing any good for our brain. Right. Right. And you mentioned mental health benefits as well. And I think that's definitely something we should talk about because. Again, in sort of a transitional period of life, we can get down, we can feel confused or stuck and, you know, need some mental health boost, for lack of a better word.

13:24 So tell me a little bit more about that. Yeah, I think mental health has definitely, the topic has definitely increased in the last couple years. And we're starting to realize how it, the daily stressors are anxiety. It really does affect it. And music is, it's a superpower. I like to think of it as a superpower because there's so many benefits that are significant and can positively impact and change your life. It can change your direction. And mental health is one of those areas. One of the things with music is, and this has happened to all of us, you'll go into a space and your favorite song is blasting on the speakers. And what happens?

14:07 Like within seconds, your mood changes. So that's why I like to think of it as a superpower because what is more powerful that within a couple of seconds, like instantly, your mood is enhanced. And that's because music is the language of emotions. A lot of our memories and our emotions relate to songs and music, and it brings it all back for us. So I like to, I believe playing an instrument actually increases your emotional resiliency as well. In these songs, there's these stories that the composers have written, and there's major keys that are happy notes, and then there's minor keys that are sad notes. And when you play those sad notes really fast, then suddenly it's intense and something big is coming up.

14:52 Or maybe there's major keys that are being played very softly, and you feel light, airy, very motivational. So it will this one song can take you through a series of stages emotional stages just like a movie does and as you're playing this song the emotions that you have within you will start to relate to the music and so it's actually a way to process and release your emotions just like if you're talking about a bad day to a colleague or you're talking to your therapist, the only difference is it's a lot less intimidating. Facing your feelings, it can be a lot sometimes. It can be kind of draining.

15:32 And playing an instrument and playing out your feelings and processing them through music, it's not draining, actually. It's empowering. You leave the piano bench feeling like you just released. And it wasn't even overwhelming to face those fears or face those feelings. So it's actually another powerful way to build up your mental health and emotional resiliency. You know, I love that because, in fact, episode one of Mind Your Midlife, not that long ago, was about the fact that we need to feel our emotions. And exactly as you said, Yes, we do need to. Yes, it's healthy.

16:14 And yes, sometimes we don't want to. And sometimes it's really feels hard and overwhelming. And I don't want to feel like that. And I truly never until this conversation thought about music as a way to do that. I think that's fantastic. I see what you mean. It could be like loud, soft. It could be a little bit happier sounding. The minor keys do sound kind of like, I don't know, they're different, right? They're actually my favorite. Yeah, I love the sad music. I'm just like in my feels. Really fascinating. Yeah. And then if you want to take it a step further, like if you do have a private teacher that you kind of dissect the song with and you talk about what's happening in the song, then you actually start to build language around emotions.

17:03 You learn to identify these emotions that are happening that the song is trying to create in the audience. and you talk about them. So I know it sounds so simple, but how many adults actually know how to identify their emotions when they happen? Sadly, the number isn't that high. I don't know what the numbers are, but I know I even struggle sometimes like, what am I feeling here? Yeah, the process of like dissecting a song and talking about it with someone and it's kind of a third party. It's not your own emotions, right? It's the song's emotions. So it's a lot less scary and you can kind of talk about it. And just that process does help you get more comfortable with talking about emotions.

17:43 That's a great point. You don't feel like you're putting yourself on display or, you know, in the spotlight, in the hot seat. You feel like you're trying to interpret something and that is like a project and not so intimidating, maybe. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Now, you also said something about the flow state when we were talking previously. And meditation is a big topic right now. So tell us a little bit more about that. There's, of course, a lot of research around how much What does playing an instrument do? So there was this one study that I was reading and they hooked up musicians, kind of checked their vital signs as they're playing their instrument.

18:28 And what they noticed is that when you're sight reading music that is on your level, then you are basically transformed. You're forced into this meditative state. You're forced to be present because when you're playing an instrument, it does activate all parts of your brain once again. And so you don't have time to think about those distractions and those stressors from the day. And so you are in this flow state, a form of meditation, your heart rate slows down, your breathing also slows down, and the stress regions of your brain stop showing up on the screen, like those bright patches that show up.

19:09 So the mental activity and the stress regions of the brain, they decreased. I took that information later, by the way, and I was like, you know. Sometimes I'm an overthinker. I'll admit it. And I try to catch it now. Like, I'll see myself. I'm thinking about this thing, this concern, this worry, whatever it is. And I tell myself, okay, no, I'm not going to think about this anymore. I thought about it enough. I'm done. And then 10 minutes later, I'm thinking about it again. And so I'll tell myself again, like, no, you're done. No more thinking about this thing. And then an hour later, I still find myself stuck in this loop. It's just, it feels like my brain's been hijacked and I can't get out of it.

19:51 Like, I have to keep thinking about it. So I started setting my, I go to my piano, I set my timer for 10 minutes, I've tried to do less, and I find like five minutes is not enough, I need to do at least 10 minutes, and I open up my sheet music, and it can't be easy songs, because if it's too simple, then I'll start thinking about it again. So I have to find a piece that is challenging enough, and I play it for 10 minutes. And by the time when my timer rings, I am completely in a different world. I forgot about the issue and I am ready to reset. I'm ready to start my day again.

20:32 So that's a little music and mental health hack that I kind of do now. And it's been very useful. Yeah. And I know there's going to be people listening who have kind of heard you need to be present, you need to meditate, you need to this, you need to that and aren't sure it's for them. And so doing something like this for 10 minutes as complete reset and maybe something ideally something you enjoy, right, is quite a hack. I agree. That's a fantastic idea. And then one more benefit that I think is really good for women in the stage of midlife is self-discovery. I actually have a story about this one, but you were saying how midlife can kind of feel uncertain and there's opportunities, but yeah, you don't really know what to do.

21:17 And also it's kind of routine heavy. So you have your go-tos. Things can be kind of predictable. So it's important to kind of rediscover yourself and to try new things. And one of my students, adult students, her name is Leslie Tucker. She was a joy to teach and we're still friends to this day. But she reached out to me and she was one of the ones that was like, oh, I've always wanted to learn how to play piano. I love learning new things. She's very, very smart. So I could tell she loved being stimulated. And she was like, you know, when you get older, it's important that you can re-see yourself. Those were her words, like re-see yourself.

21:59 And I thought that was really interesting. Yeah, we had a good time. She took lessons for a couple years. We really got along, and she learned her favorite pieces. But Leslie was bold enough to actually perform at a recital. And mind you, those are two different skill sets. Like, playing an instrument is one thing, but now to perform— such an intricate, detailed activity in front of, you know, people, that's just a couple levels up. And I don't know if she knew what she was in for, but she did it. And during her performance, though, she did have a couple of hiccups. Like she played the wrong note. She got nervous. Her hand started shaking.

22:43 She had to kind of restart the song. But, you know, the way she responded to that, like, I'll always remember it because it's so unnatural. Like, usually you'll see people like, like freak out and it just gets really overwhelming in that moment. Leslie like started laughing at herself and she would like turn and face the audience and just be like, ah, and then try again. And she was so lighthearted about it. I think it changed a lot of students' perspectives it was about performance. Like, it can be light. It's okay if I make a mistake. And the audience was, of course, super supportive. Like, they were just cheering her on and telling her, yeah, you can do this.

23:25 And at the end, I asked her, like, what did you think of everything? And she was like, you know, if you can't fail gracefully, how can you expect your child to? You have to practice failing gracefully. And like, learning something like this, It's going to call out different parts of you, and it's going to really show you who you are under pressure and how you treat yourself under pressure. And like Leslie, I think it's so important to give yourself grace to kind of make mistakes, and it's okay. And more than anything, remember to enjoy the process. And thankfully, she was like, no, it was fun. I had a fun time, and it all worked out in the end.

24:07 I love it. I have a friend who's a coach and one of the things she always says is do things with a light energy, light, easy, light energy. And it could be a hard thing, but not going into it with this like feeling about it. And that's exactly what you're saying. That's important. Yeah. Okay. Well, we have to flip over to sort of the other side of this discussion. I'm convinced this is a good idea. Those benefits are amazing. And yet, I don't know if listeners, you agree with me, but I had always heard that it would be harder to learn a musical instrument as an adult. And I did learn piano and organ as a child.

24:50 So that is some benefit to me. And if you're listening and you learn something as a child, I imagine that makes it easier now. But you hear these things. It's going to be hard to learn as an adult. It's going to be challenging. And maybe this isn't quite the right thing for me to pick because I'm thinking it could be challenging. So what are some of those challenges and what would you say to that or advise people? And by the way, kudos to you for learning organ. I'm finding less and less of those people. So that's awesome that you learned. It wasn't actually my choice. It was my parents' choice. But I did the full thing, like multiple keyboards, two feet on the pedals, like the full thing. Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah, there are definitely challenges. Like, I'm not going to lie to you.

25:30 I saw my adult students really struggle. And mind you, like, I wasn't planning to be a piano teacher either. So when I started teaching piano lessons, I also had to start teaching myself because I had had a long break. And yeah, I played my pieces, but I didn't really practice my sight reading as much as before. So I would say I'm actually a much better pianist now than I ever have been because, yeah, I built up to it. But I guess the first thing I would say is we want to make sure that we avoid, like you want to set yourself up for success first. So you do need to prepare that this is a cognitive enhancing ability.

26:12 It's going to take some work. Your brain will really need its space to work, right? So the first thing you want to do is set up your space. Make sure it's a quiet space. I also recommend making sure that everything you need is within hand's reach so you never have to leave that space and then be distracted by something. So like, for example, I'll have like my timer, my metronome, my music books, pen, pencil, like if I want to write something down, have all that there. Set your timer for 10, 20, 30 minutes, whatever your goals are. And the goal is not to leave that spot until the timer rings. So that's a good way to set yourself up for success. And you'll have to let me know if that helps you when you start practicing your violin again. Yeah, yeah.

27:00 Well, now you've mentioned 10 minutes a couple of times. And so if we just really had 10 minutes each day, do you think that that is enough to maybe start making some progress and feeling good about it? It's not one size fits all. And like if you haven't ever learned, it is harder. You don't have those neurons in your hands or in your brain connected to your hands like somebody else that has played piano in the past or has played guitar or has sung before. Right. It's much easier for them to revive those skills. So it will take a little bit more work for those where it's their first time.

27:41 It also depends on age. I like to say 10 minutes because it's a good opportunity for beginners to be like, oh, I can handle 10 minutes. Like, yeah, I have a really busy schedule. I have a busy life, but I can find 10 minutes. And so it's a good gateway to just get started. I now, like my standard time is 30 minutes. If it's a weekend and I have more time, then I can easily do an hour and enjoy that. And if it's a busy day and I don't have time to like really dive in, then I'll just do 10 minutes. It's the consistency that's the power, right? Yeah. And that's my next point, actually. How did you know?

28:22 So yeah, I wanted to talk about consistency because now I'm thinking about my kids and my students that are children. Like they have parents and parents are that support system. They're that accountability. Like, hey, did you practice? Your teacher's coming tomorrow. How much have you practiced this week? And as an adult, that's not there, right? You are the master of your life. And if you're not feeling it and you don't have that discipline built up, you're not going to do it. So if you are one of these people where you're still struggling with the discipline aspect and being consistent, I highly recommend build that support system just like a child has.

29:03 You can tell your children, you can tell your mom, you can tell your colleagues and just tell them like, hey, I'm doing this new thing. I'm learning how to play guitar. I'm starting voice lessons. Can you check in with me next week and just ask me like, hey, how many times have you practiced? And just that thought, like knowing like, oh, my friend is going to ask me next week. Like, I better do at least 10 minutes. Like, I can do 10. That's going to really help. Yeah, and it's an interesting thing. We often talk about creating habits and say, you know, just get yourself, let's say it's for a walk. Get yourself out for a walk and tell yourself, I'm going to go for 10 minutes and just walk around the neighborhood or whatever. And, you know, it's the getting on the shoes and the coat and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

29:45 But once you get out there, once you start playing the instrument, oftentimes you want to keep going. Not every time, but often. Oh, you're so right. There have been so many times where my 10-minute timer has rung, and I'll just flip it again to another 20 or another 15 minutes because... I am enjoying the moment. So when that happens, I'm always like, yeah. Okay. So I want to ask you what you referred to about ages. You referred to, we need to talk about ages. Yeah. So with my adult students, they really struggled with comprehension and then the act of doing what you were, what you understand. This is very common, actually.

30:30 They tell me all the time. I understand what you're saying. Like, I comprehend. My brain has absorbed what you're saying. I understand. But physically, I can't do it. Like, my fingers aren't responding fast enough. I can't play it fast enough. I am not hitting the rhythm. And there's these physical barriers. And that's where I have to tell them, like, that's because you haven't built those neurons yet. And that's what you're doing right now. There's neurogenesis happening, and it's going to take time. It's going to take practice, but it will happen. And with kids, like when that happens, because they have the same issues too, like a five, six-year-old, they don't have that fine motor control yet, but they don't care. They're just like, all right.

31:13 Like they just accept it. And adults, we don't accept that very easily, right? They're like, what is wrong with us? Like, why can't I do this simple thing? Like, I understand what you're saying. This is simple. Why can't I do it? There is that like judgment that we put on ourselves. And of course, anytime you judge yourself, it's going to take your energy away. It's going to bring you down. When you're practicing and you're, you know, you're frustrated instead of like accepting and giving yourself grace. We say we're saying that term a lot right now, but it really is something that adults need to practice more of. And so, yeah, that's definitely a big challenge. And then And when we start to, like when I'm working with students that are 70 years and above, there's another challenge. And that is like things have changed.

32:04 In their brain where processing new information and storing that new information sometimes it isn't stored in the right place and there's a lot of repetition and they also deal with the same things like why do i have to repeat this so many times why do i have to work harder and it is hard to kind of face that reality because they tell me all the time they're like yeah i may be 75 but i feel 35 honey well tell me that and like i get it but the reality is is that the brain does slow down at that age and it is harder to learn new things so it's all about just catching up to that reality and giving yourself even more grace even more time to adjust and being okay with that and i always try to remind them like yeah this is probably something we have to accept but the future is still in our control, right?

33:01 You can still sharpen your brain. You can still work out your brain to slow this process down. And that's how we can avoid these issues from accelerating. I love everything you just said, and it kind of circles us back nicely to that cognitive piece that we talked about at the beginning. And listeners, what I'm hearing Nicole say is that you need to start now and not wait. Start now. Yeah, it'll be way easier on you, for sure. Something else though that occurred to me and maybe this helps everybody listening to kind of put this together in your mind as well i am learning golf and i have gone to lessons and i have said exactly what you just said that your adult students say like i know what i'm supposed to be doing and my arms are not doing it and i don't know how to make them do that or whatever it is i know what i'm supposed to be doing i don't know how to make them do that and so So that connection for me just made a ton of sense and also kind of helps me in other things.

34:03 Like we just need to be kind to ourselves and we just need to repeat a bit more. And that's how it is, right? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It's all about giving yourself grace and being willing to try. Yeah. Yeah. And we can figure it out. Okay. Well, this has been really interesting and I know everybody's going to enjoy this conversation. So tell us, how can people connect with you or learn more about your school or just music lessons in general? My piano studio, it's called Piano and More. So pianoandmore.org. You can go to that website. We also have social media where we like share this kind of content. So if you're curious and you want to learn more about how brain health intercepts with music and how they kind of benefit each other, definitely check us out.

34:50 I also have, we just recently launched this quiz. It's called, What's Your Music Superpower? And it will basically just show you your top three categories of how music will benefit you the most. So it's like a two or three minute quiz, 25 questions, multiple choice. And it's just an easy way to kind of say, oh, practically, this is how it would help me. Is it worth it? Is it valuable enough to me? And you can just kind of get an idea. Yeah. Perfect. Perfect. And I'll have that in the show notes. Perfect. Tell us this. We're wrapping up. I've learned a ton. I know listeners have learned a ton. What would you say if we take away just one thing from this conversation, the OMG moment, what do people, what should they take away? You know, I just want women to win.

35:38 Like there's so much that like I see the women ahead of me, how much they've given and how they can also feel depleted too. So like I really do see music as a superpower. It's reach and the benefits is very broad. It can help your body, mind and soul. And if you want it to, it has the potential to fill up all three areas. So don't put that aside. Don't be afraid to think like that could never be me. It's just one step at a time, one practice session at a time, and look out for yourself. Give yourself a better quality of life, and if you're having doubts, just ask yourself, why not try? I love it. Thank you so much for joining me today.

36:22 Yes. Thank you for having you. It's been a pleasure. Wow. I loved this discussion. Make sure that you go to Nicole's site, Piano and More, and take her quiz. I'm definitely doing that as well. And then you heard us talking about episode one. I'll link that in the show notes. And you'll want to grab the free Story Cycle resource that I created to help you start recognizing your emotions and the thoughts behind them. And that's at CherylPFisher.com slash Story Cycle. And make sure you have hit the follow button. Because next week, we are going to be talking about something that really hits us all at a certain time.

37:03 And that is isolating ourselves a bit in midlife, and making friendships, making them work, making new ones. I'll see you then. Oh my goodness. Let's keep creating confidence and success. One thought at a time.