Ep. 3: Do You Express Your Gratitude? (Gratitude, Part 1)

Jennifer Richwine 0:00

There was a piece of white eight and a half by eleven copy paper shoved under my door. And on it was a handwritten note from a student who did not put their name. They said they were writing on behalf of other students. They said they knew that I did not get a lot of recognition for the work I did, but that the events that I worked on and the speakers I brought made such a difference in their experience at Wake Forest and how grateful they were that I was doing the job I was doing. That was incredible. To this day, I still don't know who it was.

Cheryl Fischer 0:29

Are you ready to live your best life, make healthy choices, have success, have fun, and still have time for everything else? I'm here to teach you how to do that. And we'll all learn together from guests along the way as well. Follow along for some powerful tips on cultivating gratitude, making healthy choices for mind and body, and having fun doing it. What if all the angst and worry actually don't help? Oh my goodness, let's keep learning how to do this differently. OMG, hello, my friends. I'm excited to be here. This is a fun episode for me because my guest today is someone I've known for many years. I don't know if we should say how long. We're not going to say how long, a lot of years. So Jennifer Richwine and I met in college at Wake Forest quite some time ago, and she is now the executive director of the Wake Washington Center of Wake Forest, located in the heart of Washington. She partners with the university to develop programs for alumni, parents, and friends in the area. And she also led the development of the DC Study and Internship Program for undergrads. Prior to that, she was assistant vice president of university events, planning things like commencement. Now's the time of year for that. And she is passionate about expressing gratitude in any environment, including the workplace. So Jennifer wrote the book with gratitude, The Power of a Thank You Note, which was named the number one new release in business etiquette. So we are going to dive in to expressing gratitude today. Jennifer, hello. I'm so glad to have you here as part of launch week for this podcast. And I know you have a great message to share with the world. So now that I've said we've known each other forever, we can have a little fun today as well.

Jennifer Richwine 2:21

Great. Well, thanks for having me, Cheryl. I'm excited about this.

Cheryl Fischer 2:24

I'm so glad. This is my first interview podcast episode. So I know that Jennifer will make a great first interview. We're pioneers together. We're pioneers together, exactly. Okay, let's dive in. I love the quote from GB Stern that you include at the beginning of the book, which is silent gratitude isn't much use to anyone. And I completely agree. Expressing gratitude is really powerful. What does that quote mean to you?

Jennifer Richwine 2:53

Well, obviously, that quote is very important to me. And, you know, I think it's great to feel gratitude. I think there are lots of studies out there that talk about the more gratitude you feel, the healthier you are, the better your mental health, the more productive you are. And so just feeling gratitude is great. But that's only a small piece of the puzzle. So expressing gratitude is actually the larger piece of that in terms of mental health and friendships and relationships. So if you feel gratitude, but you're not expressing it to somebody, why does it really matter? So there are lots of times where you'll hear people talk about something they're really grateful for or somebody they're really grateful for, but they're not telling that person. And so part of my goal with the book is to really encourage people to express that gratitude to other people because that changes lives. And so someone simply expressing gratitude can really make a difference, not just in their day, but in their outlook, how they see themselves, how meaningful they feel like their lives are. So I think if you you feel gratitude, that's great, but expressing it is really sort of the power punch.

Cheryl Fischer 3:59

You know, that's a good point because I am actually doing the next episode next week about feeling gratitude. And it is only part of it. It's important, but it's only part of it. So I totally agree. And, you know, I would add in there, maybe it's not exactly gratitude, but I try to remind myself if I'm out somewhere in public and I see someone that has nice hair or cute earrings or whatever, I should say nice hair, cute earrings, and just say something nice. So I think that maybe applies. Yeah.

Jennifer Richwine 4:29

It can totally change the day. Just someone saying you have a nice smile can actually make you smile for the rest of the day.

Cheryl Fischer 4:35

That's a really good point. I love it. Okay. How did you come to value thank you notes so much that you wrote a book about them?

Jennifer Richwine 4:43

Well, I think like a lot of people, I was forced to write thank you notes as a child. Yep. You know, my mother, who is a very traditional Southern woman who would not let us play with our Christmas gifts and birthday gifts until we had written thank you notes. So I grew up writing thank you notes and I grew up hearing how important they were. And I did it out of just obligation. I was made to write them. But I continued writing them because I knew it was sort of the right thing to do, but really didn't think that much about it. But there was a time in my life where I was just feeling a lot of gratitude for people in my life, and I started writing lots and lots of thank you notes. You probably ever seeked one, Cheryl. A few maybe in our friendship. I have. And I started spending a little more time with the notes, not just out of obligation, but telling people what kind of impact they'd had on my life or things that they had done that really had meaning to me, not just thanking them for a gift or for something nice they had done for me. And the feedback I got from people was pretty astounding. And it was clear that there weren't a lot of people doing this and writing about the impact people had made in their lives. And so it just encouraged me to write more. And the more I wrote, the more I heard back from people. And so I really just felt like there was something happening there that we needed to express our gratitude. So randomly I was asked to teach a very short course in orientation on Wake's campus for incoming freshmen, and they said you can teach on anything you want. And so I taught about thank you notes, why we should write them and how to write them, because a lot of the generation of students coming up today, although this was a number of years ago, just weren't used to writing thank you notes. And I asked them to think back onto people that had influenced their life up until that point. So here they were starting the new part of their lives. And I just asked them to reflect on how did they get there? Because they didn't get there by themselves. So who got in there? Was it a coach? Was it a mentor? Was it a special teacher that took an interest in them, their parents, under school teacher? It could be anybody. And I asked them to think about three people they wanted to thank for getting them to this new point in their lives, very important part of their lives. And then I just spent a little time telling them how to write the note. And so once I did this, then I ended up doing another talk for my department. And I just started doing this. I started talking to different groups within Winston-Salem and some other places. And finally, somebody said, you know, why wouldn't you put this in a book? And I said, Well, I don't know, because I like talking about it. I don't know if I want to write about it. But they encouraged me to do it. And I literally took some time off one summer and took sort of the outline of my talk and fleshed it out and did a little more research and sort of just came up with this book that I just did as a not to make money, but honestly, just because I wanted people to write more notes. I wanted more gratitude out there. And so it's been really fun to see sort of how that's been used a different way since it was published.

Cheryl Fischer 7:39

And I'll tell you all, Jennifer was an English major. So the idea of writing a book is not so crazy. I was probably one of those people who was saying that.

Jennifer Richwine 7:47

It's not crazy, but it can be a little daunting. But it was, yeah, I did it an easy way and got it published through the publishing arm of campus.

Cheryl Fischer 7:56

Hey, you know what? Maybe somebody's listening and they want to write a book. There's ways to do it that are maybe different than what you think. So there's a side lesson. Did you get a sense that these students that you were teaching at the time were actually taking you up on it and they were actually writing? Did they ever tell you how it went?

Jennifer Richwine 8:14

So what was interesting is I I mean, I gave them the note cards and I didn't force them to write, but I really encouraged them to write and said that I would mail them for them. If they had addresses, I would stamp them and mail them for them. And that I don't know that I got feedback from those incoming freshmen because I didn't necessarily have an avenue to hear back from them of what happened when they wrote their notes, but there were lots of good questions and questions about how they write something or how they express something, or was it going to be too late to write a thank you note to someone that they that was had been further back in their lives than people in their high school? And they were definitely giving it thought. And as I I wrote about this in the book, and one of the things I said is that that even if a tenth of those students sent out one note each, there were lives that were probably impacted.

Cheryl Fischer 9:00

Yeah, I certainly agree with that. And we're gonna circle back to a couple of things you just said, actually. So here's the first thing, and I am sure there are people listening who are thinking this question in their head. So I'm just gonna ask it because we need you to answer it. There are so many different ways to communicate now: social media, email, text, phone, and of course, written notes. So, what do you say to someone who feels like email is great enough, modern, whatever?

Jennifer Richwine 9:29

I love and I hate this question all at the same time. I'm a little bit of a stickler on the handwritten thank you note. That is why I wrote the book. I do feel strongly about a handwritten note, which I'll go into in a minute as to why. But I will just say expressing gratitude of any kind is better than not. So verbalizing it to someone face to face is important. If you must send an email, that is also a way to express gratitude, and it's better than not expressing gratitude. I'll tell you why I like the handwritten thank you note. Number one, it is not very common right now. And from a actual professional standpoint, you would not believe the number of people who comment on the fact that our students that are here in this program write handwritten thank you notes to their mentors and their uh people that manage them while they're here for the semester when they're interning. It is something that stands out in today's world because very few people are doing it. And we actually hear stories of people getting a job offer because when all things were equal, our students are the ones writing thank you notes. So I do think it stands out. So for professional reasons, I think it's great. But part of it is just me, think about it, Cheryl. If you open up an email, you probably read it pretty quickly. There, you know that someone could have written it very quickly. You may not think much about the fact, you probably are gonna be like, oh, that's really nice that they wrote me a note of gratitude in an email. You're not gonna be upset by that. But if they take the time to have note cards, to handwrite a note, have a stamp, put it in the mail, they're going to have put more thought into it. So it's probably gonna be a better note no matter what. There are probably not gonna be as many errors in it because in emails, people use short language, they don't use complete sentences. It's just a more thoughtful thing. And I don't know that anybody sits down and says, oh, they sat down and wrote me a handwritten note, but it is instinctual that you are feeling that gratitude more because someone took the time to handwrite it. It's also great because if I get a really nice thank you note on an email, I will print it out and save it. But most people don't do that, and so it's it's ephemeral, it's gone. Whereas handwritten thank you notes, I go into people's offices all the time and they have handwritten notes taped to their boards. I have people who have framed handwritten notes. My mother keeps her favorite thank you notes in her Bible. So I do think it needs more.

Cheryl Fischer 11:43

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Jennifer Richwine 12:18

If the choice is say nothing or do it by email, then do it by email. But I I'm a big proponent of the handwritten note. And by the way, I have horrific handwriting, as you know, Cheryl. And I say to people, it doesn't matter. If you can understand about every third word, the note still has a lot of impact. I do not have great handwriting, and I have all kinds of tips and tricks for how to make my handwriting better. And I try to use that so that it's at least legible. But you don't have to have great handwriting to make these notes powerful.

Cheryl Fischer 12:47

You know, it's funny, we could go off on a whole side discussion there about cursive writing because you and I write and read in cursive, but there are generations out there that have no idea what that is.

Jennifer Richwine 12:57

Well, and for that reason, I actually write a lot of my thank you notes now. I literally just before we got on this podcast, I just finished writing all of my thank you notes to the students who are leaving for the semester. And I printed, I wrote them all in print instead of cursive because I'm not 100% sure everybody can read those. Right.

Cheryl Fischer 13:16

I think that is definitely a thing. And the other thing I was thinking of as you were talking is I actually do have a little bin in the cabinet behind my desk where I will stick thank you notes. And a lot of it's from people on my team for my network marketing business, but it's anything. And every now and then I look through and it makes me smile, and that's powerful.

Jennifer Richwine 13:37

Absolutely. I I have so many thank you notes, and I do go back. I mean, it's great to go back and read those when you need a little boost. And can you do that by email? Absolutely. If you save it, but a lot of people just read it, delete it, and it's gone.

Cheryl Fischer 13:51

And quite frankly, even if I made a folder in my email, which I have done for something I might want to go back and look at, I don't really ever think to go back and look at it. So all good points. Well, thank you. You are welcome. Okay. I think for some of us, once we decide to do something like this, we say, okay, she's right, she makes great points. We're going to start doing thank you notes. We're going to get in the habit. Now we start to make a bunch of rules for ourselves. And you actually touched on this earlier a little bit. If we don't send the note by this date, it's not worth it, it's too late, we have to do it this certain way, things like that. The question is then, what is the best time to write a thank you note?

Jennifer Richwine 14:34

Well, I love that question because it comes up quite a bit. And I do think people often, if they procrastinate, then they feel like, well, it's just too late. So the example that I sort of alluded to earlier was with a student who was coming in as a freshman. And she said, you know, when I was looking at Wake Forest several years ago, a friend of my mother's invited me to come stay with her in Winston-Salem while I looked at Wake Forest. And while I was there, she had gone by herself to her mother's friends. And that person gave her a lot of great advice as she was thinking about colleges and how to think about which college she should attend and just was very helpful for her. And she said, I never thanked her. And now it's three years later, and it just feels like it's too late. And I said, Well, actually, it's perfect timing because here you are at Wake Forest. And I bet a lot of what she told you is what led you here. So now that you're here in your first week of freshman year, now's a great time to write her and tell her that you're here on campus and how much you enjoyed the conversation and how meaningful it was and how you still considered her advice as you were applying to colleges. And I think it's perfect timing. So now look, if someone gave you a gift, it really is nice to get it out as quick as you can, in part because they may not know that you got it. I'm not being critical when I'm thinking, okay, they haven't written me a thank you note. I'm more just wanting to make sure they got it. Okay. But but I know it, I know if I ask if they got it, they're gonna think I'm asking because I want a thank you note. And that that actually isn't it. So if someone gave you something or did something and you need to write it as soon as you can, just so they know that they received it. But but it's never too late. And in fact, I think some of the best thank you notes are the ones that come way, way, way down the road. And really, because um, one of the things I talk about in the book is that writing a thank you note as perfunctory action is good and better than not, but really thank you notes are more most powerful when you're write about the impact of a kindness or a gift or just the impact someone's had on your life. So I love having people do the little exercise of think of someone or a few someone's in your life, maybe way back in your life, who did something that still resonates with you and has had an impact on you. And just see what happens when you write them a thank you note. What it tells people is they really did have a lasting impact, that they have a legacy that lives on 10 years, 15 years, 20 years down the road. You still think about something they did for you, or you still think about something they said to you, or you still think about a way that they positively impacted your life. That's powerful that you get those notes. So I say it's never too late. I love that. Okay, maybe somewhere in the South there are people sticking to rules and saying it must be within a certain amount of time. But I don't think I've ever heard someone complain about a thank you note coming too late. They're just glad they got one.

Cheryl Fischer 17:19

I agree with that completely. And I don't think I remember the second point I was gonna make. So let me just I'm sure it was brilliant.

Jennifer Richwine 17:25

It was brilliant.

Cheryl Fischer 17:27

The other thing that came to mind when you were saying that is that I, as the listeners may know, was a teacher in high school for 12 years. And every, almost every year, not quite every year, there would be a student who would write me a thank you note. And I still have them for the most part in my basket of thank you notes. And that was a thousand times better than the Starbucks gift card or whatever else we often got as teachers. Of course, the two together is awesome too. The thank you note was the powerful thing. And I still remember that as it's coming up now.

Jennifer Richwine 18:06

Yes. And think about Cheryl. If someone wrote you a note today, if you received a note in the mail tomorrow and it was from someone that you taught 15 years ago with some nugget of something that they cherish from your class, how would that make you feel?

Cheryl Fischer 18:21

Amazing. And I'll even give you a story to go along with that. Through various professional connections, I found out that a colleague of mine works with a prior colleague of mine from ages ago. And when I had hired this prior colleague, we had brought him from another country. We had had to do all the visa paperwork. It was a bunch of hoops we had to jump through to be able to hire this guy. And he said to me last year, 20 years later, you changed my entire career when you were willing to do that. And I was just floored.

Jennifer Richwine 18:56

Yeah.

Cheryl Fischer 18:57

Now, to be fair, that was a LinkedIn message. However, the gratitude part of it was still powerful. I'll let it go.

Jennifer Richwine 19:03

I'll let it go.

Cheryl Fischer 19:05

Okay. So I really love the stories that you share in your book. And I'm curious about one or two of the favorite thank you notes that you've received.

Jennifer Richwine 19:16

Well, I think my two very favorite are both anonymous thank you notes. So I do talk about this in the book. I think anonymous thank you notes are absolute magic. And people are reluctant to do it. And then maybe it's because they think they need to be recognized or they need the person to know it was them that wrote it. But it is such a gift when you get an anonymous thank you note. So one that's in the book and one that's not what I gotta note, it was high event season where I was literally working around the clock. I do not think I think it was dark when I got to work and dark when I left to go home for multiple days on end. And I actually was exhausted and not feeling like I was making much of an impact and wasn't sure why I was in the job I was in. And I came in one morning and there was a piece of white eight and a half by 11 copy paper shoved under my door, and on it was a handwritten note from a student who did not put their name. They said they were writing on behalf of other students. They said they knew that I did not get a lot of recognition for the work I did, but that the events that I worked on and the speakers I brought made such a difference in their experience at Wake Forest and how grateful they were that I was doing the job I was doing. That was incredible. I mean, that was, I have no to this day, I still don't know who it was. But what I did was I walked around campus for the next week and a half thinking every student could have been that person that wrote me that note. It's amazing how powerful that is. And really, just maybe two months ago, I received a note in the mail at the office from again, someone I do not know who it is. The return address was from a state I don't recognize. Someone, I mean, I recognize date. I didn't recognize anybody from the city. I was hoping. I mean, we did go to college. So maybe somebody put it in the mail somewhere they don't live. I don't know. Maybe it was someone who read my book and decided to write it. I honestly don't know. But they wrote the nicest note saying that I had a positive impact on the people around me, and they just wanted me to know that. And they were expressing gratitude for it. And it's just powerful. I mean, that could be anybody. So imagine just knowing that someone out in the world thinks you're making a difference. You don't need to know who it is. It was enough to just really give me a great boost. And I just I love those kinds of notes. Now it doesn't work in every situation, but there are lots of situations where anonymous notes are powerful, and I and I think it's I think it's really good. I will also say, not necessarily notes I've gotten, but notes I feel strongly people should write, especially in the professional world, are notes to people who are just doing their jobs but doing them well. So I happen to be in a high-profile job when I got a lot of those notes when I was back on campus. Everyone knew what I was doing. Every, you know, my work was was pretty visible. But there are a lot of people on our campus and a lot of people in many jobs that have sort of behind the scenes work, but their work is critical. And it is astounding what happens when you express gratitude to people for doing their jobs and how much meaning it gives to them and does make them feel like they're making everybody, everybody wants to feel like they're making a difference. And yet there are a lot of jobs where people only hear from other people when something goes wrong, especially customer service jobs. They only hear the bad stuff, they never hear the good stuff. So I love taking notes with me when I travel. I'll write thank you notes to people who just got me extra soap in a hotel room or um were just really pleasant to me when I checked in at the airport counter because a lot of times those people are not as pleasant as we would want them to be. When people do that kind of stuff, I just love to say thank you. And I think it just makes a big difference for them and knowing that the work they do matters.

Cheryl Fischer 22:48

I think that's a great point. And we have a program in my office at my corporate job that means that anyone can nominate anyone else for what we call a spot award. And you get a little Amazon gift card, but you write why you're nominating this person. And the company really asks people, do it whenever you want to, do it. There's no limit. And there's always a lot of debate about well, should we be nominating someone because they did extra or just because they did their job? Aren't they supposed to do their job? And everyone always falls on different sides of that argument, but you make a very good point. We all could use a little thank you every now and then for doing our job and doing it well.

Jennifer Richwine 23:32

Absolutely.

Cheryl Fischer 23:32

Yeah. Okay. So can we ever do any harm with a thank you note? Does it ever hurt to send one?

Jennifer Richwine 23:38

Never hurts. Never hurts. Does not hurt. Can it can only do positive things? And I think it's important to be sincere. I think writing a note just to say you've done it, or writing a note to someone to flatter them. I think people know when a note is sincere and when the gratitude is sincere. So I do think what you write and how you write it is important, but I can't think of a situation where a thank you note would do anything but have positive effects.

Cheryl Fischer 24:05

I agree. And I've had conversations with people who wondered if I had an interview, especially if it was online, would the person think it was odd that I then got their address and I wrote them a note? I can't think that anyone would ever think that was odd.

Jennifer Richwine 24:19

Do you agree? Okay, so I get this question a lot because there I'm dealing with lots of students with interviews. I I do think speed is important. So, what I say is write a quick thank you by email because that you don't want too much time to go by. For all you know, they're making their decision about the third round of interviews within a day. So I always say go ahead and express thank you in an email, but then follow that up with a handwritten note. It's a little harder right now when not everyone's going into the office on a regular basis, but typically companies have a way of forwarding that information. Andor in COVID, I actually had students handwrite a note, scan it, or take a photo of it and send it via email, but as a handwritten note. So there are different ways to do it that can still add meaning and just sort of show this is what I would do if I had your address, but I don't have your address and I didn't want to ask for your home address. And so here's what I'm saying.

Cheryl Fischer 25:08

That's pretty creative. I would have never thought of scanning something handwritten. And there's probably technology nowadays where you could even hand write right on your tablet or something. I don't know.

Jennifer Richwine 25:19

I wouldn't be there is because that's actually how one of you talked about my favorite thank you notes. One note was something a trustee wrote on a tablet the night after a big event and emailed it over to me because he didn't want too much time to go back. So he handwrote it on his tablet and then shot it over to me via email so that I would get it before the day was out. Cool.

Cheryl Fischer 25:38

I love it. Okay. So, listeners, there you go. You can handwrite on your tablet if you know enough technology to do that. And there is one option.

Jennifer Richwine 25:47

As a plan B.

Cheryl Fischer 25:48

As a plan B. Plan B. That is a plan B. I will give out a challenge to say, Jennifer said, think about somebody who has made a difference at some point in your life and figure out a way to write them a note. And in fact, post online that you listened to this episode and you wrote a thank you note to whoever. You don't have to tag them. You could make it anonymous, but let's put out that challenge because I think that's pretty cool.

Jennifer Richwine 26:16

One thing I will mention that seems to be a sticking point for a lot of people in getting notes mailed out or stamps. For some reason, stamps seem to be a barrier to people actually writing notes. All you have to do is go online and order stamps, and they will arrive at your doorstep. You do not have to go into a post office, which is what I hear. People don't like to do. I order all my stamps online. And what's great is if you do that, they have all different versions of stamps to choose from. And I pick out different ones based on what types of thank you notes I'm going to be writing. And they all just arrive in my mailbox. And then there's no excuses. The stamps are right there. So it is one of the best tips I can give people for making sure that notes don't just get written, but actually get out in the mail and to the people that I want to express gratitude to.

Cheryl Fischer 27:00

That's a really great point. I am just now on the train of getting stamps online. I did it maybe a month ago for the first time ever, and it is a game changer. Yes. Yeah. Okay. So this has been awesome. Is there anything else that comes up or that you think of that is advice that you definitely want to share, no matter what age or no matter what type of event?

Jennifer Richwine 27:20

Well, I'll say a couple of things. I think people often get intimidated by feeling like they have to write a lot, and thank you notes don't have to be long. You can pack a very powerful message of impact in a couple sentences. So I do have lots of different note cards and stationery for different types of notes I want to write. You should always have thank you notes that you can't write on the back, and you can maybe only write on a small portion of the card because then you don't feel intimidated by trying to fill up the page. You don't have to say a lot. Just say what you want to say and put the pen down, and that's going to be a powerful thank you note. So that's one thing I would say. And the second thing I would say is that thank you notes get easier the more you write them. Thank you notes have always come in fairly easy to me because I like to write, and I know some people don't, but they are easier the more you do, and you don't have to reinvent the will with everything you write. And I save my best thank you notes because I use some of the phrases over and over again, not in a disingenuous way, but there are certain things that you want to express that you can use similar phrases from one thank you note to the other. And I also save other thank you notes where I think people express something in a really cool way that I had not thought of before, because then I steal it for some of my thank you notes. So it does get easier and you don't have to reinvent the wheel every time you write a thank you note. There are there are ways to sort of shorten that whole process. And the more you write, the easier it is. So I just say if you just make it a habit and continue writing, they'll only become much easier to write as you go.

Cheryl Fischer 28:49

I think that's great advice. And it reminds me of advice you gave me at one point that I still am probably about 50-50 on following. And that is don't start the thank you note with the phrase, thank you for the yes.

Jennifer Richwine 29:02

Every note is more powerful if you don't even use the words thank you in your thank you note. It forces you to talk more about the impact than just saying thank you. If you're writing a thank you note to them, they know that you're grateful, which is why I end all of my you know with gratitude, because then I don't feel like I have to say thank you in the note. And then I focus much more on the impact and how it made me feel, and then just close it with gratitude.

Cheryl Fischer 29:25

I love that. And let me wrap up then by saying I will put the link to Jennifer's book in the show notes. This has been fun. And I would say take away two things from this. Number one, find somebody that you would like to thank who's made a difference in your life. And number two, just express your gratitude. If it has to be plan C or D and it's not perfect, still do it because it will make a difference. So thank you so much, Jennifer, for being my first guest. This was awesome.

Jennifer Richwine 29:54

Thanks for having me, Cheryl.

Cheryl Fischer 29:56

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