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One of the things that's been a theme throughout my professional life has been around the seven, eight year mark.
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I start getting a little restless and I start thinking is this really what I want to keep doing?
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And I always have wondered and you can hit the link in the show notes and send me a message and tell me I always have wondered if that's common and most people feel that way after a period of time in a certain job or business, or if it's mostly me just always liking change.
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Either way, in midlife we seem to even more often hit a point where we're kind of maybe rethinking what we want to do with our job or with our business.
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And so if that's you, let's talk about it.
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Welcome to Mind your Midlife, your go-to resource for confidence and success.
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One thought at a time, unlike most advice out there, we believe that simply telling you to believe in yourself or change your habits isn't enough to wake up excited about life or feel truly confident in your body.
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Each week you'll gain actionable strategies and oh my goodness, powerful insights to stop feeling stuck and start loving your midlife.
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This is the Mind your Midlife podcast.
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You may or may not have heard my story.
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I have changed careers a number of times, and the first major change, after two jobs that were sort of similar to each other, was from a corporate job to teaching high school, and that came about because I had young kids and I really wanted to be able to spend at least summers with them, have a bit more flexibility, and my job at the time didn't offer that.
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And so I really thought through what in the world, how could I achieve that?
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Because I did need to work and at the same time I wanted this time flexibility and I wanted something that would seem valuable to me.
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I didn't want to just be away pushing papers around and then feeling bad that I was away from my kids for no reason, just air quotes.
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So I realized that in my corporate job one of my favorite parts was doing the training of my team team members, that I was managing and helping people and explaining things, and I kind of extrapolated that from there.
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Now the funny part of this is, when I decided what I was going to study in college, I purposefully picked something that was a little different than what someone might have expected, because I said I never want to be a teacher.
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And then I don't know how many years later, maybe 10 or 12, there I went into 12 years of teaching that I did enjoy.
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So we never know, we can't predict the future.
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Now, at midlife, I made another fairly significant switch, and here I am with you as well, and so I wanted to bring to join me today Shannon Russell.
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Shannon is a career transition and business coach, and she helps women leave unfulfilling careers and build joyful, purpose-driven businesses, and you're going to hear us talk about this, but she also is the author of Start your Second Act how to Change Careers, launch a Business and Create your Best Life.
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So I think we're really going to have fun with this conversation.
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Shannon spent over 16 years as a TV producer in New York City and Los Angeles, working for things you might have heard of, like MTV, yahoo, popsugar, a&e, tlc.
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So here we go.
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Hi, shannon.
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Hi, cheryl, thanks for having me.
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I'm so excited.
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So here's what we want to start with, and especially for our conversation about making a career switch.
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I think it's really powerful to know more about your story.
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So how did you end up working with women who want to make a career switch?
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Yeah.
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So I myself made a career switch.
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So I left my career as a television producer and after 16 years and I was trying to figure out what exactly I could do with those skills and that experience, and I actually ended up opening my franchise business to start.
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That was my first venture into business and I taught children's STEM education so robotics and Legos and was able to bring my two little boys along with me.
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But the idea for my coaching business started because customers in that franchise business would ask me what grade I taught, because they thought I was a great teacher.
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And I would say, well, actually I'm a television producer and it would spark these conversations and they would say, well, can you help me?
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I'm not really happy with where I am in my career.
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Can you help me figure out how to launch a business or change careers?
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And so I would help certain customers and friends of mine.
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And then I realized a lot of women, especially in midlife, were feeling the same kind of misalignment and that I didn't want them to have to go through it alone like I did.
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So I launched my coaching business to help other women.
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I love that and when we first met, I thought it was cool how our stories have so many similarities, because I've switched careers a couple of times and I've gone in and out of education and maybe coaching is sort of the thing that teachers are going to be really good at as well.
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Maybe that's what the thing that teachers are going to be really good at as well, maybe that's what the thing is there.
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But yeah, it does.
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It takes guts to make a change like that.
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So this occurred to me when I was thinking about talking to you.
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Do you think that because it seems so often that in midlife women are thinking about a change?
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Do you think that it's because maybe we didn't choose exactly the thing we love the first time?
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Or is it more often that just we've changed and so now it's time for something new?
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How do you, how do you see that I?
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see it as that we've changed that.
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You know, when we were 20 years old choosing our career path, we were in a completely different place, and if you are someone who is a mom or is caring for parents or has other personal responsibilities, the job that you loved when you were 25 doesn't align when you're 35, 45 and beyond.
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So I often think it's that we've changed and we can love what we do or we cannot enjoy it, but it just doesn't really fit, maybe the flexibility that we need at this stage in our life.
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Yeah, I think that's fair because it feels like there's a lot of moving pieces all moving at the same time.
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Yeah, Different priorities, exactly, and sometimes you just need that flexibility or that freedom, and if you're working a job, like I was, which was lots of long hours, a commute, travel, it just didn't allow me to be home for bedtime and to be around for the kids the way I wanted to.
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So something had to give, and I think there's a lot of jobs like that out there that make it really difficult for working parents.
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Yeah, I agree with that.
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They sound amazing and cool, but they're not always amazing and cool in practice.
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Yes, exactly, exactly.
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Well, what do you find is one or a few of the biggest concerns or the concerns you hear the most that women have about making a switch concerns or the concerns you hear the most that women have about making a switch.
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Honestly, the number one thing, Cheryl, is well, who am I to want to make this change Like?
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It's oftentimes that women feel like it's a selfish choice and that they think, well, doesn't I've had a couple of women say this to me well, doesn't everyone hate their job?
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Shouldn't I just suck it up?
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And it's like gosh, gosh, like I know people think that, but it doesn't have to be that way.
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But I hear that so often and that you know we want to, and maybe it's the women in us and just how we were raised by society, but the fact that we put ourselves second or last and we think that it's a selfish move to want to pivot careers so that yeah, look at you.
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If you're listening to this right now, I have to explain.
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I've been sitting here with my mouth hanging open.
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That is not what I thought you were going to say at all and I'm fascinated and I'll tell you in a minute what I thought you were going to say but truly I'm fascinated.
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So the idea that they would even want to think about, strive for, take action on something they feel they shouldn't.
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Yes, and a lot of times the second part to that is that they feel like they're going to cause chaos in their family by trying to make that change.
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So I have a lot of conversations with women about how can I make this change towards what I want to do, but in a way that is strategic and doesn't wreak havoc.
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And honestly, it's possible.
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And there might be some people out there that say, well, just put the date on the calendar and say I quit and figure it out.
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I'm not that person.
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I say I know you have other people who are depending on you and you have to take care of yourself and others.
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So let's do it in a really strategic way so that you feel comfortable, because when you feel comfortable with your change, you feel confident and that's going to lead you to success on the other side.
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But I think it's that first notion that who am I to think about doing it?
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And then so often women say, well, I'll wait until the kids are out of the house, or I'll wait until retirement and I'll wait, wait, wait for that perfect time that never comes.
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And that's where I just get my rage and I want to shake and say no, this is your moment.
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If you're thinking about it, do it now.
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Don't have a regret 10 or 20 plus years down the road.
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Yeah, and if I may just stick on that point for a second again, if you're listening and you've heard other episodes of this podcast, do it now is something that I say all the time and almost every guest, no matter what we're talking about, says do it now, start it now.
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Whether it's, you know, hydrating or being healthy or changing careers or thinking about something differently.
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Just start now.
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Right that, like it's always better to start now.
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Yes, I was just going to say there's a quote, and I don't know whose quote this is, but it's something like the best time to start was a year ago.
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The second best time is now.
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That gives me chills.
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I love that.
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Yeah, so I'll tell you what I thought you were going to say.
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I thought you were going to say that the top concern that women mention to you is sort of a fear of the unknown, a fear of how will they get hired or have success in the new thing, and I'm sure that's there.
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But I'm totally fascinated by the other direction that that many of them are going.
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Yeah, and and it definitely is both Absolutely.
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But I think the one that upsets me the most is what I said, you know, of just feeling like I'm just not worthy enough to build myself a better life.
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But the fear of the unknown is there for you, it's for me, it's for all of us, and anytime we try something new, that's always going to be there.
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But again, by starting now, you can get past that first hurdle of the unknown and then you can rest your shoulders and breathe right and know that you're on the right path.
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Yeah, tell me more about what you were saying about how it doesn't have to be a quit your job now and then figure it out, sort of thing, and it can be more gradual.
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Right, because everyone's situation is different.
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So a lot of times women will come to me and say I make X amount.
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I'm really worried about leaving that, starting a business where I might not make money for a year or so.
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How do we get from point A to point B?
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And so we start small.
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We really dig into the stuff.
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That's not fun.
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The money how much do you need to bring into your family?
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And what does your savings look like?
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Do you have a nest egg ready for this venture?
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And then we look at okay, well, maybe you're not going to leave your job and officially go full-time into that business for six months, maybe it's a year, but to be realistic sets you up for success.
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And then what doesn't?
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I know sometimes women get a little like upset that it's not now right, that it's later, and they're putting off that inevitable.
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But we can do so much to build that business in this time.
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So while you're earning that paycheck you can set up the LLC, you can do your market research, you can figure out if you know all the pieces of building that business the logo, the website, all of that while you're working.
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So when you're ready to go and you have that money saved, you can just go.
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And same thing if you're looking to pivot to a new career and look for a new job, you can update your resume, linkedin, do your networking, all of that while you're earning the paycheck.
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So there's ways to kind of build that roadmap to get you there in a way that feels comfortable, leads to that confidence.
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And when you're confident about that, it's going to be portrayed to your family and your loved ones, who may be a little hesitant, but you can say I have this plan, this is my timeline and I'm going to get there.
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It just might not be tomorrow.
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Yes, and there could be some bumpiness along the road, I'm sure.
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And so when you kind of talk through this gradual plan, do you get a lot of concern back from people about, well, how do I have time for that?
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I already don't have time for what I'm doing.
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Yes, yeah, so I like to, when I'm working with a client, have that.
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You know.
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We decided six months.
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It's three months, whatever that timeline is, and then that list of everything that needs to go into building that business or finding that next job.
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And then we reverse engineer the timeline and really kind of make it a practical list of everything that can happen each month, broken down by weeks or days and then based on your personal schedule.
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It might be working on that resume or that business plan over your coffee in the morning instead of doom scrolling on your phone, or over your lunch, or when the kids go to sleep or when you're folding laundry.
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A lot of my great ideas, my great ideas.
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But my ideas come from driving in the car, when I'm driving the kids here and there.
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So I keep a notebook and I jot everything down when I'm at a red light and it can still be productive in those little pockets in your day.
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It's just being disciplined and having that plan.
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You know what?
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Such a great point.
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I have often in life been doing multiple things at a time where I was working on something else during my lunch hour or early in the morning, and I think I just have a personality where I like to have, I like to have a few different things going at once.
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You know, I'm happy that way and I do think there's more time than we realize.
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But it's interesting the ideas in the car thing because if, if you really sit and think about it a lot of times, we get our ideas when we're doing some what's the word I'm looking for like repetitive activity that we just let our subconscious brain run and then the rest of our brain is kind of working out problems and stuff.
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So it could be in the shower, in the car, doing the dishes, folding the laundry, and those are usually I agree with you, fully powerful ideas.
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So I have often voice texted myself in the car.
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I figured out how to do that, and without, in a safe way.
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So yes, don't pick up your phone please when you're driving.
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That's not what we're saying.
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So, yes, don't pick up your phone please when you're driving.
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That's not what we're saying.
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But writing it on a pad at a red light works too.
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But yes, I figured out how to tell the car to text me and then I'll just talk and then later I have to kind of figure out what in the world that text was.
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But yeah, but that's great, especially if you listen to podcasts like this one.
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Right, like you're listening, you're getting inspired and then you want to get that idea out, because at our age I feel like the ideas go if we don't write them down?
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Yes, yes, they do.
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It is good to write things down.
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So I was gonna ask you well, somebody is thinking about a career change.
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How do they start?
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And I think you've kind of given a good answer to that that that timeline is a good idea.
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What else would you advise someone to do if they're kind of just tossing the idea around?
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It's doing that research.
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I think learning before you leap that research is so key because a lot of times you can have all these ideas right, especially if you're creatives like us.
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You have ideas and they all sound great, and especially if you're feeling stuck and unhappy.
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So then anything seems great.
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It's shiny object syndrome, right.
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You want to jump for that next opportunity because it's better than where you are now.
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But if you do your research and you say, okay, what would my day-to-day look like in that role or running that business, and then you actually learn a little bit more, you might say, oh, that's not for me, let me cross that off my list and go on to the next thing.
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So I think using those little pockets in your day to do that research will help you narrow down to exactly what you're looking for and then contrasting that with your skills and your experience and really what you can bring to the table will help you be able to take those steps in the right direction.
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So you're not jumping to something and finding yourself equally miserable in a new role.
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Right, because any job or business is going to have parts of it that we might not love, right, it's work, it's not fun, but I like that you said figure out what your day might look like, because one thing that really helped me when I was making a switch and this was a long time ago from a corporate job to teaching was thinking about well, which parts of my day do I actually like, what are the things that I have to do that I actually like?
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And that led me to training, teaching, explaining, and I eventually figured out okay, well, maybe this is the direction I want to go.
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So, yes, very good point.
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Or, even more importantly, to what you don't want to do anymore.
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Maybe it's something that you're really good at, but you just don't want to do that in your second act and I always say you can be a little picky at this point when you're really looking to venture into something else you want to make sure that you're doing what fills you up like you were saying what you enjoy and that it aligns also with your.
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I call them non-negotiables.
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When I left television, I knew I wanted to be present for my kids, so I needed to find a business that would allow me the flexibility to be a class parent, to pick up at the end of the school day, and so those are my non-negotiables.
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I'm not starting a business where I'm working 24 seven.
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You know out somewhere.
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Yes, as a business owner, you work 24 seven, but you can make it flexible for what you need.
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So, yeah, just like really narrowing down to what you're looking for and what's going to fill you up in this next act.
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Let's go back to your story for a second.
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So how did you land on a franchise, and particularly one that is related to STEM and working with kids and education.
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Yeah, I love the story.
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It was really me floundering.
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I had said I'm not going back to television.
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My show had gotten canceled, so that was my sign from the universe to not pick up the phone and get my next job.
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I was going to figure it out and I was doing all the things that were not working.
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I was going for a master's degree for something I didn't want.
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I was taking a nine to five job that was toxic, I didn't like and I was at home with my kids my newborn and my three-year-old and my three-year-old was building with Legos, like the Duplo Legos, and he was in the zone and I could actually walk away and make dinner because he was very attached, especially with the newborn and I said, wow, like there's something to this, and I started thinking about you know STEM and thinking like an engineer and teaching kids to be creative through building, and so I was researching opening my own business because I knew I could bring the kids with me.
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And then I found a franchise that was already existed and had everything I was looking to build and it was, for a first time business owner.
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It was a no brainer to just invest in that franchise and see what I could do.
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That's really fascinating and, to be honest with you, I didn't know such a business existed.
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I have a good friend who has a tutoring franchise and that's what I imagined, but this is a little bit different.
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Take on that, so very interesting.
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But it's flexible.
00:20:46.116 --> 00:20:57.337
You can see how that would be flexible for a new mom who needed, you know, that kind of a yeah, it's really looking at your needs again and what you want and I felt like I was giving back.
00:20:57.337 --> 00:21:07.882
I felt like in the entertainment industry for me it was a rather selfish not selfish, but you know, very altruistic kind of world and I was like you know what I want to give back.
00:21:07.882 --> 00:21:14.240
I want to help other families and children and my little boys, and so that felt good to go in that direction.
00:21:14.930 --> 00:21:18.874
Okay so let's see what we have so far Thinking about felt good to to go in that direction.
00:21:18.874 --> 00:21:37.152
Okay so let's see what we have so far thinking about the parts that we like in what we're doing now and the parts that we don't like in what we're doing now, what kind of schedule we might want, what I guess is the goal in terms of income, maybe kind of a timeline for that, and is there anything else that you would add for people thinking this through?
00:21:37.613 --> 00:21:40.818
I think, really examining your skills and your past experience.
00:21:40.818 --> 00:21:42.963
So what do you do every day?
00:21:42.963 --> 00:21:45.836
Write a list, as old fashioned as it sounds.
00:21:45.836 --> 00:21:54.821
Write a list of pen and paper what you do every day and what you've done in past careers, If you worked in retail, if you were a waitress or waiter.
00:21:54.821 --> 00:21:58.691
Write all of those down so that you have all of that.
00:21:58.691 --> 00:22:12.251
And then think about your options of what you'd like to move into and pull that thread from your experience to the business or the role and see what really aligns, because we can do so much more than we give ourselves credit for.
00:22:12.732 --> 00:22:18.520
And when you look at that skills list you might say, well, and a lot of people say well, everyone can do this.
00:22:18.520 --> 00:22:22.645
But no, you're just so close to it that it feels that way to you.
00:22:22.645 --> 00:22:29.843
But when you really examine it you can say, wow, I have a lot to bring to this other role or a lot to bring to this business.
00:22:29.843 --> 00:22:41.714
And then you kind of create that little story for yourself of this is Cheryl, from act one to act two, and what that story looks like and why you are making that pivot and how it aligns.
00:22:41.714 --> 00:22:53.896
Or for me it was second act success, and that plays on entertainment and television and it kind of all goes through of me producing a show and now producing and growing a business and helping others do the same.
00:22:53.896 --> 00:23:05.773
It's my career story, if you will, and and I feel like you can't get to that unless you really examine your skills and your past experience and appreciate those- yeah, I agree with that.
00:23:05.814 --> 00:23:11.490
That makes a lot of sense to me, and your book is out now, so tell us about that.
00:23:12.011 --> 00:23:12.934
Thank you for asking.
00:23:12.934 --> 00:23:17.695
Yes, it's called Start your Second Act how to Change Careers, launch a Business and Create your Best Life.
00:23:17.695 --> 00:23:20.987
So it's everything I teach really as a coach.
00:23:20.987 --> 00:23:29.251
It's my strategies and it's my story of career transition and those of my clients and celebrities who have changed careers.
00:23:29.251 --> 00:23:38.651
And just I wanted to give lots of examples of people who have started a second act and then give all of my tools and strategies on how you can start to do it too.
00:23:38.651 --> 00:23:48.041
So I'm hoping it'll become that tool or resource that people can grab and really dive in and be messy and write notes and really get their ideas down onto paper as they read.
00:23:48.451 --> 00:23:51.964
I love it and I'll make sure to put the link in the show notes for the book.
00:23:51.964 --> 00:23:57.662
For sure, is there any story that really sticks out to you that maybe somebody listening would enjoy?
00:23:58.150 --> 00:24:10.497
Yeah, I was actually thinking of this earlier when we were speaking about something else is there is a client and a woman, who was also on my podcast, who was commuting to Manhattan and it was about a two-hour each way commute on the train.
00:24:10.497 --> 00:24:17.461
But she knew she didn't want that anymore and she wanted to open her own actually a lactation consultant business.
00:24:17.461 --> 00:24:27.800
She had two little ones and she got really intrigued on how to help families feed their babies and so she decided to use that time on the train to get her certification.
00:24:27.800 --> 00:24:34.385
So she studied, she got her certification and she built her business during her commute.
00:24:34.767 --> 00:24:51.444
And I always get excited talking about that story because I think it shows that it's possible right To really look at your day and that time that you have and use it to good use rather than scroll or do stuff that isn't going to get you to your goal.
00:24:51.444 --> 00:24:53.655
And that's just, I think, a really inspiring story.
00:24:53.655 --> 00:24:54.198
And she did it.
00:24:54.198 --> 00:25:00.601
She left her job in the city and she's got her own business and she feels so fulfilled helping others too.
00:25:00.601 --> 00:25:01.943
So props to her.
00:25:02.910 --> 00:25:10.336
Amazing and it's so cool to think about the fact that we can even do something like that now that 20 years ago wasn't even possible.
00:25:10.336 --> 00:25:13.790
It wouldn't have been possible to do courses on a train for two hours.
00:25:14.051 --> 00:25:23.424
Yeah, exactly, but that's dedication right, like that really took her to be very dedicated and work towards it and not just quit and figure it out.
00:25:23.424 --> 00:25:27.934
She really did it while she earned her paycheck, so it can be done.
00:25:28.817 --> 00:25:29.999
I love that story.
00:25:29.999 --> 00:25:39.092
So if this is inspiring someone to say, okay, maybe that idea in the back of my mind is really something I should actually look at further.
00:25:39.092 --> 00:25:41.417
How can people find you or get in touch with you?
00:25:42.140 --> 00:25:44.615
Yeah, you can go to startyoursecondactcom.
00:25:44.615 --> 00:25:47.465
That has a link to my book and free resources.
00:25:47.465 --> 00:25:54.432
I have a free second act journal where you can start getting your ideas and get them down onto paper with different prompts.
00:25:54.432 --> 00:26:00.755
And yeah, all my coaching opportunities and other free resources are all at startyoursecondactcom.
00:26:01.096 --> 00:26:04.843
Perfect, thank, you, and let's finish with this.
00:26:04.843 --> 00:26:12.592
If there's one thing that somebody listening should remember from this conversation, I like to call it the OMG moment.
00:26:12.592 --> 00:26:13.794
What do you say?
00:26:13.794 --> 00:26:14.375
That that is?
00:26:14.955 --> 00:26:30.303
I think it's give yourself grace, understand that making a leap in any direction is not going to happen overnight, but acknowledge that you're allowed to daydream about it and then put in the work to research it and just take small baby steps to get there.
